It may be even worse than that!

I had one guy I work with ask me what car I got when I bought it new... he said he liekd the way it looked and all... I told him it was a new Monte Carlo SS...

He then went on to tell me how he would never buy a Monet Carlo again, because he used to have a 1981 Monte Carlo that "didn't run good from the get-go". He also bought it used, in 1987... with 104,000 miles on it...

I am amazed by some people process of reasoning.

 

if i were a magazine editor,i'd tell lutz to stick it in his ***.has anyone sat in an ion?or impala?go sit in a civic and then sit in a cavalier or ion and you tell me what has better feel,better fit and finish,hell,better smell.product is key.do any of you honestly think america is full of idiots that can't tell what's a good car unless a car mag tells them so.idiots that can't think for themselves,that's the only reason someone buys a accord over a taurus,of course,it's not the product,it's the media brainwashing the idiot masses.the big three are fully capable of making excellent cars,look at cadillac,look at the corvette,then look at the sunfire,left to defend its lame-*** against the civic or focus.people aren't stupid,make a crappy product,no matter how much history or brand loyalty that product has,there is only so much people will take,you have to step up and compete,evolve or die.how many british motorcycle companies are left because they couldn't compete with the japanese?none.the current triumph started after the classic triumph died.that alone should be a lesson to anyone,history is nothing,don't keep up,you could be gone tomorrow.suck it lutz.not that i'd miss those pandering ads anyway..."we sucked,now we don't"....whatever.

 

Yeah..go ahead and tell the largest advertiser on the planet to kiss it...great business sense there.....

All Lutz asked for was a fair review...not the typical anti-American bias that is like a cancer in the magazine business....otherwise, the magazines that exist because of advertising dollars can kiss GM's @$$...go Bob go...........

As far as sitting in an import and comparing it to a domestic..I have and I think the percieved import advantage is the biggest lie since Bigfoot.....ALL smoke and mirrors........

 

why should GM be allowed to extort good reviews out of car mags?like i said before,i'd tell lutz to stick it.

 

I don't think it's extortion, I think it's common sense. If you were producing and selling product X and a magazine constantly trashed it, would you be eager to hand your money to said magazine to put your ads in there?

Auto mags have the right to write whatever they want, just as GM (and anyone else) has the right to choose how, and where, they advertise. It isn't that difficult a concept...

 

the whole Euro thing...its "better"... just like BMW..though quality issus are showing on them now..just like Caddy had.. is the CTS as good as a BMW offering now?? you bet! but Its taking mags time to actually admit to it..

and Chevy even did the " imported luxury" idea..remember the Eurosport Lumina?

I think all of the cars now are as good if not better than the imports..and Toyota..well dosnt the new Solara look like the little brother of the Lexus..and they praise it and say its a unique car..kinda funny that if GM had done thins..ohh wait we cant or we will be branded as watering down the brands quality..

 

i agree

 

if the product is inferior it deserves to be trashed by the media and all the advertising in the world isn't going to do a f4ck of difference.

i'm surprised nobody brought up the Koreans in this discussion. when Korean auto makers first started exporting cars to the US, they got their asses handed to them by the media for inferior build/materials quality among other things. but fast forward 20 years and what do we have? Koreans have made outragious strides in product content and quality control because that was their main focus and objective for over a decade. you truly can't go wrong with ANY Korean make/model today and the media reflects that. BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING GOOD CARS.

you can all keep b1tching about the media being biased and swayed or whatever and Lutz can come out and put his foot in his mouth and threaten to cut off advertising (which would hurt GM more than it would hurt the magazines anyway...) but nothing is going to change unless US auto makers start making QUALITY cars across the board. we're seeing a push in this direction right now and that gives me hope for the future, but like somebody else here said, the US auto industry is going to have to EARN its way back on top.

P.S. as a quick note about wine... its acknowledged worldwide by both the consumers and the media that California (Napa) wine is some of the best wine in the world. those wineries earned their noteriety, btw.

 

What quality import would you like for GM to emulate?

The EVO's with their rusting bumper mounts?

The Mazda 6's with their rusting bodies?

The 350Z's (even though I love the styling) with their orange peel paint & tire destroying seemingly un-alignable front ends?

The Mazda RX8's with their over-stated HP levels leading to buy-backs?

BMW's with their blown engines?

Truth is there is NO, absouletly NO cars made that are perfect....or even close. ALL car manufacturer's have problems.....the way it's portrayed in the media is and has always been biased against American manufacturer's....about time to let the mags suffer the consequences of their biases.....let them eat cake.

 

Couldnt agree more.

And i wouldnt mind Lutz asking for fair reviews if he hadnt threatend them to stop advertising in their magazines. I really do not think that this helped at all and could make magazines already feel more sour towards GM and start a little war between GM and them (auto magazines).

BTW, when i was visiting a college a month or so ago, i was talking to some of the students i was staying with about cars. Most of them have/love german cars, except one who has a v6 mustang. I brought up the fact that currently chevy beats mercedes and bmw in quality rankings. they said for example, but id still rather have a bmw.

I really think that most people dont necessarily follow these things, but go off what they can get: reviews from friends, etc who have had their cars for a few years. And people with bmw's say they love them, you should go buy them. and they will tell people that for years.

 

do i even need to bring up the Focus? what about the Series 2/3 3800s leaking oil from the rear main seal after only 20k miles on the road? or what about budget rent-a-car interiors that have been carried over from the early 80s on all GM cars until 2 years ago??

the thing is, you guys are so blinded by your own biases that you don't even notice all the good things that are said about US auto makers, you just concentrate on the negative. how about the fact that C&D will fall over themselves to pour on praise on the smallblock/4L60E combo on the truck side? or how about them fawning over the recent "Caddy-yack" revival? US builds good cars, magazines give them their dues. the truth is, magazine staffers are car guys #1 and patriots #2. and that's what doesn't seem to sit well with the lot of you. you want it the other way around.

the French have shielded their auto industry for decades, what good has that done them? it wasn't until recently when they re-privatized their auto manufactureres have we seen good cars out of France.

i mean, c'mon, if you guys are going to argue bias at least you yourselves have to be objective. otherwise don't pull the bias card.

 

After reading that press statement for Bob Lutz, I thought of a couple of tests that I have read recently in Car & Driver that are biased IMO. Last months comparision SUV test with the Cadillac SRX. Even though the Cadillac came out on top of Porche, Infiniti, and VW, C&D pretty much ragged on the Caddy. By the way I think that the Infiniti FX45 is the ugliest thing to hit the streets since the Azteck IMO.

The other test that really sticks out is the Long-Term Test of the Chevy TrailBlazer EXT. Even though they had some trouble with the power steering pump, they went out of there way to bash the EXT calling it "slow and heavy" complaining that it was 1.4 sec. slower to 60 than the regular TrailBlazer. So why didn't they order the V8? And I think the average buyer of the TB EXT could care less about 1.4 sec. of accel. loss due to having extra space. They went on to complain about the GM cement gray dash of plasitics and the way the rear seats were configured.

A lot of C&D reviews contradict themselves. The orginal TrailBlazer road test had alot of praise in it, and the EXT gets totally ripped because its bigger.

 

When I was looking for an inexpensive new car in 2000, I looked at the Honda Civic, Hyundia Tiburon, Hyundia Elantra and Pontiac Sunfire.

Out of all 3, I had to say I found the Sunfire to be a heck of a lot nicer. The Civic felt cheap and slapped together for use more then for ergonomics or looks. The inside was pretty ugly and the controls kind of junky. Heck, I could put the shifter in gear and wiggle it around quite a bit. The Sunfire had much more positive engagement for the shifter and just felt better built. The dash was a lot more inviting and looked a lot better laid out.

You can't be serious about thinking the focus is a quality car. I've sat in a couple. The term junky plastic comes to mind....

I think it's good Lutz yelled at the car mag editors. I mean, I remember reading the initial Toyota Echo review and them saying nice things about the center mounted cluster, yet they really ripped on it in the Ion. I personally think it's stupid, but be fair and consistent here. Plus how much they praised the Honda Element with the VERY UGLY look but underpowered and plastic cladded. Yet they bashed the Aztek quite a bit...

Kind of funny b/c I went to lunch with coworkers the other day. We rode in the one guy's Olds Alero and he was complaining that it was a piece of crap. His main complaint was "grinding brakes". One of the other coworkers started complaining about his car that had the same problem and noone could fix. Well, the third coworker says "you should get a Toyota". My second coworker whose problem couldn't be fixed spoke up and said "My car is a Toyota".

I'm not saying that the mags shouldn't call GM out if there's something that isn't right with the vehicle, but heck, at least be fair and consistent.

Chris

 

Thank for hitting the nail on the head. GM has become the Cadillac and Corvette company - if the product isn't pushing the $35-50k mark, they don't seem to care about it. If they'd invested the budgets from the Cadillac CTS, SRX and XLR into the Chevrolet division, we might actually be seeing some decent mainstream products.

Thanks for pointing out what happened to the British motorcycle industry. There's a good reason why Norton, Vincent, Matchless and Royal Enfield went away - they underestimated the Japanese. The current Triumphs are just sad reminders of what was. FYI, the current Triumph 3-cylinder is just a reverse engineered Yamaha motor - the Japanese as innovators and the British as copycats.

If the British motorcycle industry couldn't take the Japanese seriously when they were just putting out 50cc bikes, Detroit still has difficulty in seeing the problem when the Japanese have invaded nearly every model segment. GM products need to stand up to media scrutiny. Lutz can threaten. Lutz can whine. He can even curl up into a fetal position and cry for all I care. The Domestic automotive industry is still losing ground, and people like Lutz still can't face facts.

 

Funny stuff!

I swear this entire thread just reminds me of my aunt and uncle. When they decided to buy a new car last year they wouldn’t even consider to look at American cars. My aunt looked at like i was dumb when I told her the quality in American cars had greatly improved since her 1985 mustang that she had problems with. (her last American car) My 20 minutes discussion didn’t really affect them though, they have a 2002 Nissan Maxima sitting in the driveway now.