I think that these lesser product your referring to are getting addressed though. The new Malibu. The Colorado. The Cobalt. The new Grand Prix. All of these cars do or should have improved quality over the cars they are replacing. GM is stepping up to the plate. They cant replace every product overnight. But look at what they have done since Lutz came in. WE all know you cant turn a huge ship on a dime. GM is heading in the right direction. Again I say Lutz did the right thing. He need to keep banging the idea into peoples heads the American quality is here to stay, so when more new GM cars hit the lots they will get a second look and not just pasted over because they are "American."

 

Folks you may like what Lutz has to say or not but he's begun the very difficult and winding road back to respectability for GM and American car brands as a whole. Preception is the last barrier. After decades of trying to catch up. In quality, durability, dependability and fit'n' finish its now safe to say in 2004 that many domestic vehicles are now as good as their foreign counterparts. Put the 04 Malibu against the Camry and Accord and I think you'll see now that the three are on the same field. So the only thing left to do is get the word out that Detroit has made great strides and cought the competition. He's just making the point that the foreign brands are not as far ahead if at all in some models of the domestic, or GM vehicles. He's just asking for unbiased reveiws.
While many replies to this thread are either for or against what Lutz has to say many do agree there is some biased opinions for the foreign cars. Thats the whole point!

 

The Malibu and Colorado are underengined, undersized and so dull that I don't see them as a sufficient improvement on the models they replace. The Cobalt is long overdue, and judging by the losses the Cavalier racked up, belongs to a market segment that should have been abandoned. The Grand Prix is the same book with a different dustjacket.

If you see a turnaround at GM, you're looking way too hard at these products. The Nissan Altima is a good example of a turnaround product - and it didn't take more than a glance to notice the change.

Now here is the shocker: GM offers the best quality of any Domestic manufacturer. The bad news is that Nissan is still ahead of GM, and leads even Toyota on production costs. Of course, the amazing thing about Nissan is that their entire model range - with the exception of the Frontier and Sentra - is representative of the new thinking. Turnarounds can and must happen quickly.


American quality isn't where it should be, yet.

American products are what they they should be, yet.

American car magazines are telling the truth. Bob Lutz hasn't managed to stop them, not yet at least. It's pretty obvious that the best time to buy a domestic vehicle is sometime in the indefinite future.

 

But when Motor Trend gives the BMW M3 the victory over the Z06 in a 'King of Horsepower' contest basically because it has a backseat, does he not have a point?

Jeff

 

I had a 98 GTP and now have an 04 CompG... The two are worlds apart in features, quality and performance. Have you even checked on these cars, or are you just engaging in wide-ranging criticism of anything GM? My 04 has three folding seats, XM integrated with the steering wheel and HUD, Stabilitrak Sport and an enhanced supercharger for 20 more hp. There are more improvements on my 04 than I can list!

 

I hope they aren't worlds apart in quality...I, uh, just sorta bought my '01...and I bought it because GPs DO tend to hold up well over time...this is my immediate family's 4th one since '95.

And why did I buy it? Well, partially because when I worked at the dealer, W bodies never came in for anything, whereas Grand Ams and Aleros (I traded an '02 GA GT for the GP) came in for...

Intake leaks
Warped rotors
Trim pieces warped/loose
Bad wheel bearings

And these were all by 30-40k miles. I hope GM has upped their ENTRY LEVEL quality...W bodies and up have always seemed fine. I bought the GP for other reasons too, but the main one was I wanted a car I could buy, pay off, and put 200k miles on it and feel like I could do it!

I can with a GP...a GA? Maybe, maybe not. For 2002, I expected more out of GM, to be honest. The Z on the other hand...like a rock No problems.

 

Two more vehicles I'm sure you've had extensive experience with...or even taken for a 10 minute test drive?

You're just like John Q. Importbuyer....you just assume too much.

 

Hot Rod is such a crappy magazine now. Look, we bought a Cavalier and painted flames on it and chromed everything under the hood! It's a modern version of the classic HOT ROD right guys?!


Anyways, a lot of people seem to be reading Lutz' comments as "Give us a bad review and we'll advertise elsewhere"

That's not what it says, it's saying an unfair bias. Calling the Caddilac crap and the Benz great on the same thing.

Again, for those of you that seem to not get it:

HE IS NOT SAYING TO NOT WRITE BAD REVIEWS, JUST TO WRITE FAIR REVIEWS.

Good for Lutz. Hopefully GM keeps working on improving their low/mid range cars so I'd consider owning one again.

Edit: I saw a new Malibu in person the other day and walked around it for a bit, checked it out. Didn't look any more dull or boring than a Camry or Accord, it's target market. Dull and boring is what sells on those types of cars.

 

Amen...

The Colorado's 220hp inline 5...how is that underpowered when compared to anything except a Dakota, which gets about 12 MPG with a V8??? Does anything touch it? Nope...and I'm pretty damn sure the 6 could be shoehorned in it at a later date....even the 4 cylinder makes 180hp!!! The 4.3 only made 190...this isn't a major improvement?

200hp in a Malibu sized car is good. It isn't the 230 in the Mazda 6 (but its close), or the 260 in the Accord...but when a V6 Malibu can be had for a 4 cylinder Accord price, its a start. When the Malibu SS comes out, I'm sure you'll beat the 6 by a fair amount, and will probably match or beat the Accord even...

Lets not be too critical now...

 

1. Torque is what matters in trucks, and 225lb/ft just isn't going to cut it in the Colorado - especially when the old V6 put out 30-35lb/ft more. This truck is really going to look like a tiny little slug when the new Dakota comes out.

2. The Malibu has the size, styling and power of a Hyundai Sonata competitor. Unless a remote car starter is a must, a 4-cylinder Camry/Accord is a roomier and slicker ride. For the power junkies a V6 Altima isn't much of a reach.

However, the Malibu will be a welcome addition to the Alamo fleet.

 

Nope, that's not good enough. Why? Tell me the specific features the Malibu lacks. Tell me what specific points where the quality is less. Tell me why the new Epsilon architecture doesn't measure up. Tell me exactly why it is not a good value. Since you've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of Malibu and Camry and Accord, I'm very interested in your reply.

 

I too am very interested in your reply redzed. If you can put up valid points I would be more than happy to consider your opinion or at the most side with you. But so far you sound like the 17 year olds at my work bragging about how their Toyota or Jetta is the best car on the road. I think others want to hear something more than a personal opinion, which is so far what we have heard.

 

OK...my 2 cents. (go get a cup of coffee...this may take a while...)

First....Mr. Lutz is NOT asking them to favor our cars...all he's asking is for 'non biased' There's a journalist writing for a pennsylvania newspaper....this guy is outta control. The Camaro? Gas Guzzler and only dopers drive them and live in trailer parks. this guy should not be writing. Or perhaps he'd make a better movie critic. (didja ever notice that some journalists are experts at EVERYTHING, yet rarely, if ever, have they designed, engineered, marketed, or sold a car....that's not a shot at all journalists.......but think about it........

If we build a bad car or truck....and it deserves to be trashed, fine...but if you are comparing it with another car...you should be unbiased...and that isn't happening right now in way too many instances..... One recent memorable remark was that "the rear seat head restraints block rearward vision on the Chevrolet." (ARe you KIDDING me????? like all the others don't????)

Just as some of you have the right to say "if GM stops building the Camaro/Firebird, I'll never buy another GM car again, I believe GM has the right to say "if your writers continually write BIASED reports (go re-read that again.....B-I-A-S-E-D....) then we will spend our dollars elsewhere.

Two...quality......I have a Chevy/Honda dealer friend.....we were walking thru his service department one afternoon...he pointed out at least a dozen Hondas...all missing transaxles....and he said "I'll never understand the public....every one of these people will quietly -- with a slight smile on their faces -- write me a check for a few thousand dollars to repair their Hondas...which have been in the shop for at least a week. God Forbid in two weeks when they bring their Suburban in and we have the nerve to charge them $110 for some small repair.....they'll carry on and carry on.......and threaten us with everything they've got" And he's right... (go read Mr. Harden's post earlier in this thread about our clinic in Hartford....by the way, that was not what set Mr. Lutz off....the clinic was, I believe 3 years ago......)

Three--- quality. I list the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey results for 2002........

Lexus 86
BMW 102
Cadillac 104
Acura 105
Buick 106
Honda 108
Infinity 108
CHEVROLET 109
Mercedes 112
Toyota 112
Olds 113
Volvo 113
Porsche 122


now...the numbers mean "problems per 100" meaning that BMW experienced 102 problems per 100 cars in the survey.

According to this, Cadillac and Buick had better quality than Honda and Infinity and Mercedes (The HALLOWED cars to some.....)

But please note where Chevrolet falls...ahead of Toyota and one behind Honda............................................. ............

So.....................lemme ask you something................how do you suppose THAT happened???? And note that this is the 2002 survey............................................ ..................................


Now..some of you will say "well, yeah...when the car's new...but what about when it gets older?" Top manufacturer for cars bought new and still owned at 4 years? General Motors.

So........say what you will...we've made some incredible improvements............we still have a long way to go.........by the way....we ALL do (meaning all manufacturers)

The problem is that we're kinda like the girl with the bad reputation....takes a LONGGGGGGGGG time to overcome that.

I respect the hell outta Mr. Lutz. And NO, it's not because he's one of the head guys at GM.......there are a lot of guys at GM that I have no respect for as well.........

Bottom line: If you are going to be a journalist...get objective....that's what the rules are!

 

Sonata V6 = 170HP/181tq
Malibu V6 = 200HP/220tq

If The Malibu isn't big enough for you then you should be looking at an Impala, that is what it is there for.

The biggest fault the new Malibu has is that you can't get the 17" rims that the pre-production car had. GM seems to be afraid of rims bigger than 16"s

 

I haven't driven the new Malibu yet, but it's Epsilon chassis is world class. What the Malibu really needs to be first rate is inspiring sheetmetal and a good manual trans.


BTW, last year I was invited to a ride and drive, which I later found out was sponsored by Chrysler. We were there to compare the Sebring sedan to the Camry and Accord. We were accompanied by professional drivers who were looking for our inputs on a number of autocross tracks. Unlike some ride and drives I've been to, it was apparent to me at this particular one.....that I was the only "guest" with any autocross experience. Not wanting to appear like a hooligan..... I asked the instructor if there were any speed limits I needed to be aware of. He said to just go ahead and drive at the max limits of my ability.

Let me tell you guys something....you can flame Hondas all you want...but at 10/10ths the Accord feels like a race car, the Camry/Sebring feel like milk trucks. If you wonder why all the car mags fall all over themselves swooning over the Accord...it's not because of an anti-American bias...it's because the Accord delivers the goods.

I really hope the Malibu will be as good.