Detroit News: GM may drop GMC and Pontiac
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,376
From: Sarasota FL
Detroit News: GM may drop GMC and Pontiac
So, I hate to say I told you so for the people that thought GMC was gonna last... 
Apparently this is another Obama-move to keep them out of bankruptcy and speed up the closing of dealers. This doesn't surprise me one bit...
Apparently this is another Obama-move to keep them out of bankruptcy and speed up the closing of dealers. This doesn't surprise me one bit...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
If this ends up bring the case, then is everything left rolled into one giant dealernetwork of Chevy/Buick/Cadillac dealerships?
I really can't see any situation where Buick (if IT survives) is left as a stand alone brand.
The only real alternative would be stand alone Chevy dealers, and a Buick/Cadillac dealship, I suppose.
I really can't see any situation where Buick (if IT survives) is left as a stand alone brand.
The only real alternative would be stand alone Chevy dealers, and a Buick/Cadillac dealship, I suppose.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 270
From: Minneapolis
I think we'll see Buick solely in the asian markets eventually. People better get used to the idea. GM doesn't need Buick here, they need Chevrolet and Caddy, and that's it. I would've liked to have seen a Scion like repurpose for Saturn or Pontiac...but reality is setting in. The buying public may gripe, but that's the reality of our world. It won't be long before nobody cares, as long as the Chevy's and Caddy's offered are quality, attractive cars. I'm a Pontiac man, but I can see the forest through the trees.
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
A friend of mine's dad owns this set of dealerships
www.sunrisememphis.com
Their newest and by far biggest/nicest dealership is a new acquisition from the failed Bill Heard dealership networks.
http://www.sunriseatcollierville.com/
Anyhow... the Bill Heard dealer was only Chevrolet, but when my friend's dad came in it was converted to Chevy/Buick/GMC/Pontiac
So basically that dealership is already prepared no matter what brands get cut.
I almost wonder if GMC and Pontiac get cut if they'd try to add Caddy to the mix to still have 3 brands to sell.
www.sunrisememphis.com
Their newest and by far biggest/nicest dealership is a new acquisition from the failed Bill Heard dealership networks.
http://www.sunriseatcollierville.com/
Anyhow... the Bill Heard dealer was only Chevrolet, but when my friend's dad came in it was converted to Chevy/Buick/GMC/Pontiac
So basically that dealership is already prepared no matter what brands get cut.
I almost wonder if GMC and Pontiac get cut if they'd try to add Caddy to the mix to still have 3 brands to sell.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
From: Roseville, MI, USA
Here's my opinion on the matter.
The rumors are sure to come and go (haven't they already?) about what may happen to GM if it enters bankruptcy. We already know that Saturn is for sale, Saab has been spun-off in Europe and a decision is coming within the next few weeks on what to do with Hummer. Either sell it or close it.
Today, rumors of Pontiacs future surface as well as GMC and it aint good.
Apparently, the Obama Administration thinks they can run an automaker better than General Motors. They are looking at closing the Pontiac and GMC brand as a means to keep General Motors out of bankruptcy.
Lets thnk about this. General Motors has been successful in convincing dealers to consolidate dealerships and streamline operations to a Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership outlet.
Pontiac (267,348 units) is GM's third best selling brand only behind Chevrolet (1,801,131) and GMC (376,996) in terms of volume. The new Pontiac G8 is outselling such "darlings" as the Saturn Aura, Pontiac Vibe amongst other vehicles. It currently sits the fifth best selling car that General Motors has.
The GMC brand has the highest success rate luring customers from import brands. The GMC brand is also very profitable. Of course the brand sells trucks, but they are trucks that are priced at a premium - and again, they make a nice profit and attract buyers from other automakers.
I can understand the issue Obama has with both brands. GMC is a truck brand and Obama says GM has to focus on small, fuel efficient cars (the same ones that currently sit on dealer lots with 2+ year supply) that don't make the automaker a dime when sold. GMC has to go because they stand for everything the Obama administration thinks is wrong with GM.
Pontiac is to be positioned as a niche brand. A brand sold in small numbers at a premium price point. While the G8 may have heavy discounts it's been rumored that GM is still turning a profit on the rear-wheel-drive sports car. GM's vision for Pontiac is rear-wheel-drive sporty cars. Not exactly the fuel efficient mantra that the Obama Administration has outlined. That's why Pontiac has to go according to the Obama Administration.
I do wonder though how the Automotive task Force expects General Motors to emerge a viable company when a large portion of its sales (Pontiac, GMC) would be wipped out essentially overnight?
Today, rumors of Pontiacs future surface as well as GMC and it aint good.
Apparently, the Obama Administration thinks they can run an automaker better than General Motors. They are looking at closing the Pontiac and GMC brand as a means to keep General Motors out of bankruptcy.
Lets thnk about this. General Motors has been successful in convincing dealers to consolidate dealerships and streamline operations to a Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership outlet.
Pontiac (267,348 units) is GM's third best selling brand only behind Chevrolet (1,801,131) and GMC (376,996) in terms of volume. The new Pontiac G8 is outselling such "darlings" as the Saturn Aura, Pontiac Vibe amongst other vehicles. It currently sits the fifth best selling car that General Motors has.
The GMC brand has the highest success rate luring customers from import brands. The GMC brand is also very profitable. Of course the brand sells trucks, but they are trucks that are priced at a premium - and again, they make a nice profit and attract buyers from other automakers.
I can understand the issue Obama has with both brands. GMC is a truck brand and Obama says GM has to focus on small, fuel efficient cars (the same ones that currently sit on dealer lots with 2+ year supply) that don't make the automaker a dime when sold. GMC has to go because they stand for everything the Obama administration thinks is wrong with GM.
Pontiac is to be positioned as a niche brand. A brand sold in small numbers at a premium price point. While the G8 may have heavy discounts it's been rumored that GM is still turning a profit on the rear-wheel-drive sports car. GM's vision for Pontiac is rear-wheel-drive sporty cars. Not exactly the fuel efficient mantra that the Obama Administration has outlined. That's why Pontiac has to go according to the Obama Administration.
I do wonder though how the Automotive task Force expects General Motors to emerge a viable company when a large portion of its sales (Pontiac, GMC) would be wipped out essentially overnight?
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: NC
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
Why do you guys keep saying Obama wants to eliminate brands?
He's probably just telling them, "more cuts, faster, and deeper".
I can't believe he would even say to GM, "get rid of Pontiac and GMC".
And I won't believe it until someone can show me a quote where he says it or a video clip of him saying that.
It's not that I love the guy or hate him. Quite frankly I'm indifferent at this point.
It just seems rediculous to me to say the president is telling GM which brands to cut.
He's probably just telling them, "more cuts, faster, and deeper".
I can't believe he would even say to GM, "get rid of Pontiac and GMC".
And I won't believe it until someone can show me a quote where he says it or a video clip of him saying that.
It's not that I love the guy or hate him. Quite frankly I'm indifferent at this point.
It just seems rediculous to me to say the president is telling GM which brands to cut.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
For those that haven't seen the story: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Q&refer=canada
FWIW, Although I'd much rather see Pontiac survive than Buick, I think its the right move. There are far too many GM "brands" compared to its competitors.
FWIW, Although I'd much rather see Pontiac survive than Buick, I think its the right move. There are far too many GM "brands" compared to its competitors.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,496
From: Roseville, MI, USA
For those that haven't seen the story: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Q&refer=canada
FWIW, Although I'd much rather see Pontiac survive than Buick, I think its the right move. There are far too many GM "brands" compared to its competitors.
FWIW, Although I'd much rather see Pontiac survive than Buick, I think its the right move. There are far too many GM "brands" compared to its competitors.
Its decisions like these that will INSURE the bankruptcy of GM will not be quick, will not be "pre-packaged" nor will there be anything "surgical" about it. Let this plan move forward and those dealers will be the first to put up the biggest fight of any share holder.
But, to go back to my first question, why is it the "right move" to shed Pontiac and not Buick?
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
I'll answer that question.
It's because Pontiac is not Pontiac anymore.
Other than 2 of their cars, Pontiac is just not what it used to be or what it needs to be.
Simple as that.
I'd like to say that it would be nice to see them die with dignity, but GM took that away from them many moons ago.
Pontiac is like a suffering animal. You know you can't save it. So you do the humane thing and put it down.
And I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Pontiac guy!!
It's because Pontiac is not Pontiac anymore.
Other than 2 of their cars, Pontiac is just not what it used to be or what it needs to be.
Simple as that.
I'd like to say that it would be nice to see them die with dignity, but GM took that away from them many moons ago.
Pontiac is like a suffering animal. You know you can't save it. So you do the humane thing and put it down.
And I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Pontiac guy!!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 140
From: Long Island, NY
Why do you think cutting Pontiac is the right move? They sell the 3rd most vehicles in General Motors. They are part of a tightly integrated network of dealerships the B-P-G channel.
Its decisions like these that will INSURE the bankruptcy of GM will not be quick, will not be "pre-packaged" nor will there be anything "surgical" about it. Let this plan move forward and those dealers will be the first to put up the biggest fight of any share holder.
But, to go back to my first question, why is it the "right move" to shed Pontiac and not Buick?
Its decisions like these that will INSURE the bankruptcy of GM will not be quick, will not be "pre-packaged" nor will there be anything "surgical" about it. Let this plan move forward and those dealers will be the first to put up the biggest fight of any share holder.
But, to go back to my first question, why is it the "right move" to shed Pontiac and not Buick?
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Why do you think cutting Pontiac is the right move? They sell the 3rd most vehicles in General Motors. They are part of a tightly integrated network of dealerships the B-P-G channel.
Its decisions like these that will INSURE the bankruptcy of GM will not be quick, will not be "pre-packaged" nor will there be anything "surgical" about it. Let this plan move forward and those dealers will be the first to put up the biggest fight of any share holder.
But, to go back to my first question, why is it the "right move" to shed Pontiac and not Buick?
Its decisions like these that will INSURE the bankruptcy of GM will not be quick, will not be "pre-packaged" nor will there be anything "surgical" about it. Let this plan move forward and those dealers will be the first to put up the biggest fight of any share holder.
But, to go back to my first question, why is it the "right move" to shed Pontiac and not Buick?
I've said elsewhere it makes more sense for North America to drop Buick and keep Pontiac, for the same reasons you mention. The problem is China, the biggest and fastest growing consumer base on the planet. Buick is huge in China, and as someone else pointed out, maybe if there is no Buick in North America, the brand loses its prestige in China.
Buick and Pontiac need to merge into one brand that encompasses both images: slightly upscale "styling" and "performance", becoming essentially an affordable American version of BMW. Apparently GM thinks Buick is the right brand to carry the torch. While I don't agree, I can see a need to get rid of one of them. Unfortunately Pontiac appears to be on the losing end.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 119
From: FFX, VA
The only vehicals GMC has that isn't a clone of a Chevy vehical is the Savannah and their commercial vehicals. Why in the heck would you keep this open as a consumer brand?
Hmm I'm in the market for a pickup. Lets see I'm torn between the Chevy Colorado or the GMC Sierra. Hmm maybe I need something larger; maybe a Chevy Silverado or a GMC Sierra... Oh wait they're the same damn vehicals.
Drop GMC as a consumer product. Move it to a commercial only brand.
Hmm I'm in the market for a pickup. Lets see I'm torn between the Chevy Colorado or the GMC Sierra. Hmm maybe I need something larger; maybe a Chevy Silverado or a GMC Sierra... Oh wait they're the same damn vehicals.
Drop GMC as a consumer product. Move it to a commercial only brand.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
Bottom line is that GM doesn't have the capital to keep making clone models just to satisfy their dealer network. They need to severely cut down and consolidate the number of sales points to match what they can actually build.
Oh and Pontiac has been dead since the G6 bombed. Can't sell a midsized car = no need for the brand. And don't brag too much about the G8 because those sales are being heavily incentivized.