Okay. Show me a dealer selling a GTO for $25,000 that doesn't include discounts, rebates, and incentives.

I have nothing to do this morning since I'm off. I'll call them & verify it.

 

September was the only month of real gains, and even with incentives in October, it dropped off again.

GM cut production by 30% for 2005. It seems even GM is pessimistic about 2005 sales. I am not sure if they wil offer huge incentives for the 05 though.. It sure will help much neededsales.

 

Go smoke another one. Where did you come up wth that?? 25k including rebates and incentives.

 

Lessee.

*New more desireable GTO coming out next month?
*Sales still at a 15,000 per year level, versus earliers 8300?
*GM's total sales drop of 5% in October after a astronomical 20% gain in September?
*Pontiac's overall sales drop from 37,920 in September to 30,647 in October?

Yet it's GTO that's the problem??

Uh... OK.

 

My point exactly. GTOs are NOT selling under invoice at the levels you are saying.

Not all areas get the same rebates & incentives. The incentives on a RWD GTO in Bangor Maine this time of year are not going to be the same as around Florida, as well as the fact that a small Pontiac dealer in Dustbowl Texas isn't going to have the same discount as a massive dealer in Los Angeles.

Again, the best you'll price you'll see on a GTO with rebates & incentives is in the $27-28,000 range, which I said in the 1st place. Maybe $26K, if you have a dealer moving a ton of the cars.

 

I am using your figures.

GM sold 1420 less GTO in October than September. That is a drop of over 50% in one month with the incentives and rebates..If GM could keep the sales of the GTO at September levels, then yes, the rebates would be working, but looking at the bigger picture, it was just a spike, and dropped signifigantly again even while the rebates continued. And please stop taking one months sales andusing that as a gauge of yearly sales
And we are not talking about total GM sales here. Why you brought that up I do not know

15k is not going to be the yearly sales for the GTO..Unless December sells several thousand of them.

 

Can you not read?? I have already said there are GTos selling even for 24k brand new.. Including the 3500 rebate and financing with GM at 2.9%. Are you actually claiming there are not GTOs selling for less than 27k?

 

The cut in production is a result of a shortened model year. Plant is going to stop making '05's in May and start the conversion for the '06. That is so they can come over in September like the rest of the country's models. They are loosing a couple months of production, hence less cars made.

As for October, if the whole Pontiac line is down, you can't single out the GTO. Incentives have been ongoing for all Pontiacs and all of them went down. Hardly an indication of GTO sales in general.

Just because your local dealer can't sell GTO's doesn't mean they aren't selling elsewhere.

 

There are a few ways to get below $27K. More dealer $500 rebates. I think you are allowed a max of two? I don't know as I only got one. GMS pricing but that can't be for everybody. And if you read the fine print on most of the low ball prices, not many will qualify.

 

Neither can you claim success on a one month spike in sales in September.. Sheesh. Flat out what the drop proves is even wth incentives, it will not guarantee sales.

30% production cut when only a couple of months less of production.. The percentages show a larger cut per production time.. GM even admits they are pessimistic about 2005 sales...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...507681237&rd=1

Here was a great deal.. Best i have seen this week.

 

You said that the incentives didn't help. September was the first month of the incentives and more were sold in that month than any previous month. It was the reason I bought an '04 instead of waiting for an '05, which I was going to do even before they started coming over here. So the incentives did help sell cars.

And car sales in general are down, hence GTO sales are probably down also...Sheesh

 

Look, we are both trying to prove a point based on one month of sales while rebates were used (you September, me October). GM sales might have been down 5 percent in October, but GTO sales were down over 55 percent. Trying to justify overall sales being slower is not the reality of a 55 percent difference in GTO sales. Give that point a rest already. It makes no sense.

A one month sales increase in September proves that rebates work as much as a huge one month decline in sales in October proves they do not work. We are both debating this on data that can go either way. I tend to believe that if rebates DID work, the October sales would not have declined in the huge percentiles as seen, and that even with huge rebates, it could not even sustain those sales.

Any company seeing those numbers drop like they did in October would be pretty damn concerned.

It is like some of you here use tunnel vision to justify the GTO.

 

"Dealers say the GTO - touted as a halo car for Pontiac - suffers from bland styling, a high sticker price and no incentives." (Detroit News, May 24, 2004)

"Central to this issue is that Pontiac made a commitment to it’s dealers to deliver at least one GTO to all dealers up front. What this means is that many cars from the initial runs were sent to dealers in places like Caribou, Maine and Bismark, ND, areas traditionally not RWD muscle car hot spots. These dealers, in many cases are only getting one GTO during the entire 2004 model year, so some have marked their car up way above MSRP, which only makes the car sit on lot’s longer. Dealer markup pricing as a whole also has negatively affected GTO sales." (New Age GTO.com)

You seem to be changing the goalposts here. On one hand, you claim that dealer markups had nothing to do with GTO's dismal sales. Your position was just blown out of the water, so now you want to include those sales months when GTO's were suffering because of dealer markups to justify your idea.

So, lets look at GTO's sales history this year, both before and after incentives were added, shall we:

Jan: 476 (no incentives and dealer markups up to $10,000)
Feb: 606 (ditto)
Mar: 719 (ditto)
Apr: 650 (ditto)
May: 638 (ditto)
Jun: 598 (ditto)
Jul: 897 (GTO finally gets 0.9-2.9% financing)
Aug: 967 (Financing through GMAC gets now gets you a $2000 rebate. Also begins intrest free 60 month financing and up to $5,000 as part of a 72 hour sale)
Sep : 2678
Oct: 1258

BTW: Pontiac GTO currently has 2.9% financing for 60 months + $3500 back from GMAC, or $3500 incentive across the country. Add in a $1000 loyalty rebate, and that makes the GTO a $27,999 car. Invoice price is $29,410... before rebates.

Now again, if you can show me a dealer selling a GTO below invoice (which means, before rebates) or a dealer I can call that is selling a GTO at $25,000 advertised, let me know & I will call them and verify it.

Johnsocal knows why.

 

Lawrence, Kansas, huh?

It's 30 degress and light snow expected in today's forecast. Plus they just had a snow front go through... And it's not even the begining of winter yet.

Of course he's motivated to cut the price of a new RWD car he has. If he doesn't sell it now, he's stuck with it for another 4-5 months.