Right, I'd be interested to see the Mustang in the Speed World Challenge series though, as that is where GM seems to have the right Cadillacs running. Esp with Audi, Dodge and Chevy so competitive, also.

 

You can watch Camaro and Mustangs duke it out in CMC or AI/X series weekly across the country. Adding a Challenger would be great.

CMC=Camaro Mustang Challenge
AI= American Iron

Would be great if GM would help out the grass root racer just a tad...

 

If the Z28 or Z/28 is going to return to where it should really be again, (an all-out performance car and not a bargain mid-model) then it is going to have to look at everything those other two top cars can do and simply do them better, especially handling which is a Z28 trademark. The power or weight will also have to be better than the others and it needs unique looks. The name is in need of repair and newer generations of car people should have a Z Camaro that they too can hold in high esteem along with many others. I just hope that todays Chevy is really up to that high task because it needs to be the Z06 of Camaros. (and no I'm not implying an LS7, but would be a great limited edition factory ZL1)

I'd also try not to involve outside companies like SLP and such and have GM do it all itself, what is GMPD for anyway?! As for handling the lower cars, I'd like to see 2 SS models like what was done with the Cobalt. There should be 2 levels of power and looks with one SS being really fast with all the options and not a bargain car with sporty looks. The Z28 should be that ultimate racing Camaro again.

 

Theres no doubt in my mind that GM COULD build a GT500 whipper. Its simply a matter of whether they will. Something tells me that GM will end up building the Z28 in decent production #'s and will easily hand the GT its butt. (heck the old F'body's can do that) but Ford will once again make a very low production car that few can have or afford but will be faster and a great car to make a lot of power.

 

SS = 400HP LS2
Z28 = 1LE package with 6.2L L92 440HP

 

Turbos are trickier, that is true. They either provide moderate amounts of power increase, but are flat from 1800 RPM to 5500 RPM, or make serious power in the upper RPM range without much TQ increase in the lower RPMs.

However, it's not like the torque is going to be useless. Don't conclude that just because the turbo does not deliver its maximum potential at, say, 4K RPM that driving in the 1500 - 2500 will make the car utterly gutless. If you are dealing with a V8, which in N/A form already delivers 400 HP, the torque at low RPMs of the boosted engine will behave at the very least like the torque of its N/A counterpart.

 

It's called efficiency. ANd it comes in many shapes and forms, including power and fuel economy.

 

Me personally....

I'd rather have a well balanced, 3,500 lbs, 440 hp car, than a nose heavy, 3,800 lbs, 475 hp car.

 

I agree. Gotta have the balance for handling, and better handling usually means a faster car.

 

I find many of the posts here to be rather humorous. Why, you ask??? Well, because many of you are asking for the next Camaro to emulate the Gen IV car that failed. The most common response I'm seeing on this is, more power than Mustang, outrun Mustang, and out handle it.

Nowhere am I seeing anyone stating that the car, that competes with the Mustang GT, should have a moderately powered V8, good driving dynamics with a good ride, seating position that someone over 25 would feel comfortable with, decent, ergonomically correct interior.......... that the average owner would be comfortable with on a daily basis, and good looks that don't make everyone who drives it feel like a boy racer.

Why don't we make a Z28 that is the spiritual successor to the 1969 Z28??? How about a road racer with a decent engine. It would not be the muscle car, like the Yenko's................ with a big engine and gobs of power (akin to the GT500), but a moderately powered engine that does not overwhelm the chassis, and gives the car great balance.

Remember that your car does not need to outdo everything that Mustang does to be successful. It only needs to be the best Camaro that it can be. A great engine, wrapped by a substandard car is not going to work again (as it clearly didn't in the Gen IV cars). Great handling, with a punishing ride, is not going to work again (as it clearly didn't in the Gen IV cars). There needs to be the base V6 cars, that have the options available to make the majority of buyers (male and female) happy. There needs to be an entry V8 model (akin to the Mustang GT), that offers a low entry price V8 (RS maybe), with the options available to make the majority of buyers happy (this and your V6 car are your bread and butter cars). Then you can have your Z28 that is tailored more to the road race crowd............ and a higher model (such as the Yenko used to be) to be your ***** to the wall drag car. SS could be what it always was.......... an option package. How cool would it be to once again be able to buy a Camaro RS/SS???

If that description sounds alot like the 67-69 Camaro lineup (updated of course)........... you are correct. Why not copy your most successful versions recipe for success. This way you are not copying anyone (Mustang) but yourself. This way, you have a Camaro that is truly a Camaro........... instead of a poor mans Vette.

Remember, I have a 1968 SS Camaro................ but no Mustang.

 

Gloria gets it! GM learned from what didn't work on F4. Looking into my crystal ball I see everything going back to the ideals of F1. And if you think about it, F3 wasn't too far off of the same equation...

 

It has been my experience with turboed motors, that they do not behave like their N/A counterparts when out of boost, due to their usually much lower compression ratios. They never have that snappiness to them, and they always produce less power.

Besides, I am not trying to belittle turboes. I was commenting on a previous post about how I would prefer the more usable powerband of a good positive displacement supercharger than of a "really huge single turbo", as we all know that large turbo is going to come inherently with lag. Of course, I understand this term to be relative to the engine size as well, because a huge turbo on a 2.0L is not going to be so huge on a 6.0L, so I assumed it would be a "really huge turbo" for the size of the engine.

For all out drag racing I can see why turbo lag would be much less of an issue, but for driving on the street, or even road racing, I would prefer to steer clear of a powerband that only shines over very few rpm.

 

Why not have the good ergonomics, nice interiors, decent ride characteristics, and great options, while retaining the ability to outperform the Mustang on just about every front? Sure, the 4th gens were too extreme for alot of people, but it doesn't mean they did everything wrong. Typically, the Camaro has outperformed the Mustang just about every year of production they ran together, so why do anything to change that now. I agree, the car must be quite a few steps up from the 4th gen, but to make it "just as good as the Mustang" would be a mistake as well. There are actually people who prefer the F-Body over the Mustang due to the fact that it outperforms it, as I am one of them, and I am certainly not the only one I have ever talked to that has felt this way.

All I am saying is, although I don't disagree with anything that you wrote, I feel that if GM wants to start leading the way, they can't be doing "just enough" as their competition merits. They certainly have the means to build the car, as for execution, that remains to be seen.

 

I think the reason we're not discussing that here is we've discussed many times over in other threads.

This is about the top Mustang (Gt 350 or 500 what it turns out to be)vs. the top Camaro (ss or Z28 or another as yet unmentioned model) vs. the top Mopar 'whatever'. Not the car that would sell in most volume.

 

Exactly.

For example if the top of the line camaro had all the things 94Lightning mentioned but only a ls4 we would all be disappointed. Just image the last generation of mustangs with just the GT w/4.6 SOHC as the top of the line. Yes it would sell but it isn't that enthusiast friendly.