---I'd be careful making that statement--

You might be surprised at what a majority of BMW and Mercedes buyers said -ESP those living in areas that get snow. (keep in mind that I am a RWD guy...)

Also important to keep in mind that every car that a manufacturer puts out is not going to appeal to all of those on this site. For the most part, we're performance guys and gals -- but again, we're in the minority - yes, including those who buy BMWs and Mercedes.

The data shows that most BMW and Mercedes buyers in southern states could not care less which wheels drive the car - and a larger percentage of those living in snow states DO care -- they aren't happy with RWD in the snow -- but there's the prestige factor with those nameplates --

Not all of you are going to like the XTS when you see it in person - but I've been around long enough to know that a lot of opinions change once people see the car in person......

 

this cadillac completely conflicts with the styling theme set by the CTS. it's no sport sedan and will yet again look out of place as the only complement to the CTS line in the showrooms.

 

I don't think GM can compete with the likes of BMW and MB. Not yet. Audi, probably, but the other two Germans are (technically) on another planet.

Forget performance times, that topic is irrelevant. We are talking cutting edge technology when it comes to BMW/Mercedes products. Superb engines and transmissions, Über-performance and interior quality and presentation par excellence.

I can see Cadillac competing with the likes of Audi, Lexus and Lincoln for the majority of its sales... each combining luxury and FWD perfectly.

That said, if Cadillac aren't competing with the likes of BMW/MB, they don't necessarily need to have all their vehicles on RWD platforms. The XTS has no sporty pretensions so I can't see how luxury and FWD cannot work in this instance.

 

My point is Cadillac should be at the same high end level as BMW or Mercedes. You would never see Mercedes or BMW roll a car out that shared DNA with a car like the Pontiac G6 or Malibu. This is kind of a supersized BLS really.

This type of Avalon/ES, MKS, Acura TL large FWD based luxury car should be Buick's realm, not Cadillac. Cadillac should have spent the money developing a proper RWD/AWD car in between the 5 and 7 series.

 

Let me be the first to post...



I could very likely see my grandparents buying this car when it becomes available to replace their 2006 DTS.

 

One could also argue that until GM provide Cadillac with a range of ballistic DOHC engines that rev to +8000rpm, come with DSG 8 sp transmissions etc... then Cadillac will never be in the same boat as BMW, MB in the eyes of consumers.

If GM cannot deliver that technology, then there is no point in pitching Cadillac so high, IMHO. Don't forget, image is everything for those who have money and know what they want. Consumers of that ilk want more than S/C pushrod V8s and standard 6 spd autos, which just doesn't cut it in this market segment.

 

I suppose if Cadillac were a single brand like BMW and Mercedes , it may be wee bit easier to get all this development money soley for Cadillac . BMW ect doesnt have to share any development $$$ to build bread and butter family sedans , trucks and compact cars for other brands .

 

I have said that too..that GM needs to do a high end engine line for Cadillac...and got booed out the room.

Nissan has been doing 300+ HP V6's for years now...the Taurus SHO has a more sohpisticated V6 than the XTS.

But the basic premise is..if you your gonna justify having Buick around as mid/high lux, there has to be some kind of seperation between the two. You KNOW a year after the XTS comes out there will be a very similar Lucerne in Buick dealers. Just like the current DTS and Lucurne are very similar. If your gonna avoid overlap, why does Cadillac and Buick both need a big floaty sedans? Are funeral homes complaining the current DTS is too long in the tooth for their Hearses?

 

Actually in Germany, BMW's are very normal sedans..there are several BMW taxi's running around with pretty basic equipment and vinyl seats. You can make a good platform with a lot of bandwidth and make it fit several price points. However..I don't feel this type of car belongs at Cadillac at all.

My point in all of this is that XTS is a MKS/ES competitor..and my interpetation has been that Buick now competes with Lexus and Lincoln, and Cadillac is supposed to move up market.

 

I dont disagree with ya one bit . But I also think that its ok for Cadillac to do there own thing . I mean , how many DTS's does Cadillac sell a year in a north america , compared to a LS460 , S-class and 7-series ? Its not my thing , but I think theres still a huge market for a high end FWD/AWD large sedan in America . Cadillac needs to focus more on their brand image , prestige , dealer network and tech . Because I promise you theres more people that buy the merc for the big chrome star and the bimmer for the propeller . Hell , the S-class could be FWD and 1/2 the people buying would be clueless . So yea , outside of specific targeted models , I dont think Cadillac will ever/or could ever be a direct mecr/bmw equal .

 

The XTS uses the same wheelbase as the LaCrosse. There probably will not be a Lucerne replacement. The LaCrosse is Buick's premium sedan.

 

Maximum revs are just one neat feature of an engine. You seem to be acting as though BMWs most extreme engine (the M3s naturally aspirated, 8000 rpm V8) is the norm. Note thet their newest engines are turbocharged, modestly sized six and eight cylinders with much more "normal" redlines, I believe. The M3 is the exception, not the norm, at BMW or anywhere else, save the exotics.

Give me an all-aluminum, 556 hp, supercharged, 6x00 rpm V8 over the M3's no-doubt sweet little number anyday. I'm sure the M3 is a blast to drive and makes sweet sounds, but so does thte CTS-V. It delivers the goods in a different manner. What makes the M3's engine "better"? I think its fuel efficiency numbers are worse than (or no better than) the the numbers for the heavier, far more powerful and faster CTS-V. I'm talking powertrains here, not the overall handling / dynamics of the car.

(Having driven neither the V nor the M3, I have no idea which I'd prefer, but I've ALWAYS been a huge fan of BMW ride, handling, control feel, etc. So it could be that I'd enjoy the slightly slower, but still wicked fast, M3 more overall. But the CTS-V's powertrain is simply awesome.)

I DO agree that GM needs to come out with a dual clutch gearbox with 6-8 speeds.

However, go drive an M3 / dual clutch and a CTS-V / 6 speed auto back to back, however, and tell me which one wins for both overall driveability AND performance.

As for Mercedes, what 8000 rpm super high revver do they use? They've got a 5xx hp 6.2L V8 that makes LS7-ish numbers with a bit less displacement. They have been using supercharging for years. Why is it ok for them to supercharge an otherwise unremarkable 5.5L V8, but it is crude of GM to supercharge a 6.2L to spectacular results 556 hp in the V, nearly 640 hp in the ZR1)?

You are right that the brand snobs / techno geeks might point to transmission ratio count and valve count as some point of superiority for their rides. However, those guys who just like to buy "the best" also have to note which car is "the best" when it comes to performance, track times, etc. In the M3 / CTS-V / etc. market, that has to count for something.

High revving engines are fun, for sure. But when you've got an engine that makes 414 hp and less than 300 lb-ft of torque, and short gearing to take advantage of such a power curve, you won't necessarily come out ahead of a higher power / torque powertrain with gearing to match.

Honda's Civic Si is a good example of this. In terms of performance, even the old 205 hp (probably a bit underrated) supercharged Cobalt SS mopped the floor with it. The Honda also had nearly 200 hp, and I think was a bit lighter too. Yes, it revs to around 8000 rpm. But it makes no torque, and it is geared quite short to get torque mulitiplication and take advantage of the engine's ability to breath at such high speeds. It was still slower, and you have the added benefit of quite high engine speeds when cruising on the highway.

Anyway, yes, GM needs to add some things to keep Caddy in the hunt with the heavy hitters from Europe. And really, Caddy doesn't quite have the cachet yet (and my not for some time) to support a $100,000+ premium sedan. But let's not sell the powertrains short.

 

When it comes to interiors, Audi has surpassed MB/BMW. They are in a different realm altogether. It's not that BMW needs to catch up - BMW's interiors have a different styling direction, and feel differently. Sit in a BMW 7 series at an autoshow, then sit in an A8. Also, Audi puts a lot of thought behind such elements as how does a click of a button feel, or a rotation of a **** on the radio. They have that spot-on. I didn't get the same feel from a BMW.

GM will never pay that much attention to detail. Sure, they'll make it look nice(er), but they are not interested in spending money in such small details. It's more of the same mentality - good enough. It's how they attempted to position Cobalt against the Japanese compacts - improvements, yes, but all in all still an unfinished product with corners cut all over.

Bottom line, I don't expect Cadillac to be in the position that I was hoping for, and this XTS seems to support it.

I don't deny it's a solid piece of work, but the details is where it matters.

The only Audi that is sold as FWD here is the A3 and A4. A5, A6, A8, Q7 all come with Quattro AWD. A4 is slotted below CTS, and A6 waaaay above (in luxury).

I was getting the impression that Buick was going after Japanese luxury brands, specifically Acura. They should have positioned Cadillac to fight German luxury automakers, but as it is, GM always has a little difficulty following a target, since its target is constantly jumping around.

 

I think the car looks good. I even see some Velite styling in the side profile shot when I look at the car. I see nothing wrong with the interior myself, or the exterior for that matter.

 

The Sixteen shoulda/woulda/coulda put Cadillac on par with the Germans....