redzed

I've noticed that combined Buick-Pontiac-GMC stores seem to be nearly universal already. Forgive me if I don't share your indignation. Personally, I'm more than a little surprised that any stand-alone Buick franchise can still be a going concern these days. I'd bet that your success in moving Buicks has more to do with your own personal drive than with the actual product.

In the end, it all comes down to product. The 2005 Toyota Avalon is precisely the sort of car that a Buick should be.

My hat goes off to Buickman - not to the Buick brand.

Buickman

redzed,
Unfortuantely I must agree with your statement. Friday night I took two of my teenagers to an expo at a local church. The weather was nice and the place was crowded. Parked in the lot was a Regal Grand National. You should have seen the crowd surrounding the car just to get an upclose look. I talked to the owner who said he bought the car new. It was twenty years old, still looked new. The excitement around the car was not what you would see at an anitque display. The kids and parents both were drooling. Its that kind of product Buick needs, that makes the adrenaline rush. Financial executives have driven the Buick business into the ground by stifling out creative employees and wasting billions on foolishness like Fiat. Give me a mid size muscle car with a sister semi luxury model, a personal luxury coupe and a full size RWD sedan with horses and watch sales skyrocket.
Jim

Z284ever

I think I've asked you this already, Buickman.

How do you justify 3 coupes for Buick? Just for everyone's general info....Buick sold 309,000 units last year.

Personally, I'm not sure if Buick could absorb even one coupe. And if they could..it would probably be a low volume import from Holden.

So maybe I'm wrong Buickman. Convince me.

Or better yet, how would you make the business case for 3 Buick coupes to GM management? What platform would they be based off? Describe them in detail.

Buickman

Sorry if not clear. The mid size coupe is one model, just available in two versions. call it one male (GN), the other female (Regal). They share underpinnings and differ in appearance and tweaks. The other coupe brings back personal luxury with a sporty flair (Wildcat). All Buick needs is that product you all call for so religiously. Meanwhile the solutions in The Plan buy us the time and money to bring these units to fruition.Remember "When better automobiles are built, Buick will build them"! Mercedes is doing fine with a $30000 2dr and Lexus isn't hurting either. It's hard to win the war out there without ammo.

dav305z

I'm sorry Buickman, I just don't agree with your insistence upon keeping Buick a full line brand. You have said GM hasn't reacted enough to their problems, but now that they have, you say it's too much. Did you actually envision a future for GM in which they had 8 full line brands?
Also, regarding the GN, you do have to remember that you live in Michigan. Here in Florida, someone pulled into my old HS lot in a Chevelle SS - and got no stares. Down here, a classic is an Acura Integra. What I'm saying is that GM's problems go a lot deeper than what you are seeing from where you live.

Buickman

Respectfully I disagree and am not ready to throw in the towel.

Z284ever

Would these cars come off of existing architectures..or be all new? FWD or RWD? Any idea on what you might feel would be reasonable sales volume for these?

You know as an enthusiast, I'd also like to see a GN, a Riv, and a Wildcat. But from a pragmatic point of view, I simply wouldn't be able to make the case for 3 Buick coupes. Not with a straight face, anyway.

SFireGT98

I think I also like GM's idea of Buick as a more focused brand than a full line brand. However I do like the idea of a muscular Buick coupe similar to the old GN's and GNX's.

Dont worry, classics do get plenty of stares here in Florida. Where do you live dav305? Here in Orlando, there are plenty of classics, and lots of classic car shows on weekends (out by UCF, Old Towne if you can stomach Kissimmee...) and they draw alot of attention and big crowds. Of course, in areas that are like those around Universal Studios, Integras and old Impalas sitting on gold 24's are considered classics....

Buickman

Again the call is for two coupes. The midsize in two variations. As to architechture, I'd defer to engineers more versed in that field. My point is that the cars would sell given dynamic styling and engines that perform. Also we need to address the consistent complaint as to replacing bland interiors with pizzaz and offering colors which appeal to today's buyers.
I predict the mid size (FWD) would amount to 75000 units and the luxury (AWD) to in excess of 35000.

dav305z

I live in S. Florida, right near Miami... might as well be a different state down here. We have the only American cars on our block. It really is amazing. It's areas like this and California that GM will need to penetrate if they plan on recouping market share.
On that note, Buickman, what do you know about dealer placement? One thing I've noticed down here is that while import dealers are fewer in number, they have much better location. The import dealers here are located just outside of my town (they don't let dealers in down here ). The domestic dealers are big, but are most often in gritty "autostrips." They aren't any older - everything around here is pretty much less than 10 yrs old. Things like this have so much impact not only on sales, but image.
Again, I think you'd best serve the company if you could get a position in which you traveled to GM dealers throughout the country and helped fix them. This seems to be your specialty.

Fbodfather

uhmmmmmmm.......wait a minute....what are you referring to as "the foundation stone of GM?"

90rocz

Maybe this ?...
http://54roadmaster.tripod.com/classic/id9.html

It seems Mr. Buick started a "Holding Company" and called it General Motors".

91_z28_4me

Buickman and others who think that everyone needs a full lineup, remember this: "GM got to its position of low market share and high overlap because Everyone wanted a full lineup. If a Buick is no difference than a Pontiac or a Chevy then why should I pay the difference?"

Buick should be Luxury, quiet, softly tuned AMERICAN sedans only! That is what the brand has always been and that is what it should be now.

By advocating the dealership sides and looking out for your own best intrest you destroy the rest of the company. United we stand, Divided we fall.

dav305z

That's all well and good, but I think we all know which division is GM's foundation stone (hint, it's the one with a 15% market share on its own). Buick, even if fixed, would not be the company's most significant brand. There simply is not enough room in the GM hiearchy right now for a full line of Buicks when anything below $25,000 is competing against Chevies and anything above $35,000 is well into Cadillac territory. It would be one thing if GM still controlled 50% of the market - but they don't, and simply won't ever again. The competition is far to feirce for that. We have Japanese, and now Koreans who are extremely competitive. Buickman, even if your plan suceeded beyond our wildest imagination, do you think these imports would roll over and die? To the contrary, Toyota would be copying whatever worked from your plan in less than a year.

I think the best option right now is what GM's doing. Slim down the divisions. Who knows, perhaps Pontiac and/or Buick will really take off with 4 good cars, at which point they could possibly be regrown. I look at what Nissan has done as a guide. When they were in trouble, they went back to basics, improved their core product, and are now growing like crazy again.

The only thing I worry about in all honesty, is whether GM will actually invest in the more limited lineup. Will GM funnel the rescources Pontiac and Buick had into 4 great models for each? Or, will they chop each brand to four products currently on the showroom floor, leave them to rot, and pocket the money they save? This plan will only work if the brands have truly terrific product.

90rocz

I agree, and they should start the slim-down with every import Brand masquerading as GM vehicles!....