Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion Automotive news and discussion about upcoming vehicles

The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 12, 2004 | 02:53 AM
  #31  
guionM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Originally Posted by redzed
So guionM is contesting that there will be slightly smaller, midsized derivatives of LX platform? I guess guionM think that the upcoming sedan that is now known as "Charger" was planned as the end-of-the-line for LX platform development?
I'll just say the Stratus & Sebring replacement will be FWD, and leave it at that.

Fact: Brampton, Ontario can turn out up to 250,000 units per year.

Fact: Chrysler planned that 80,000 Magnums would be produced in the 2005 model year - nearly 1/3 of production.

Fact: The Chrysler 300 was supposed to make up the rest (2/3) of the production total, at around 170,000 units or more than twice as many units as the Magnum
You are wrongly assuming that Chrysler was planing (or even able) to churn out 250,000 cars out of Brampton this year.
*1st of all, the plant didn't start production till March
*2nd it spent the next 3-4 months getting up to speed. By September, working at the upper most limit they could, Chrysler made roughly 100,000 LX cars as of September.
*3rd, Chrysler had no intention of having to form a 3rd shift at Brampton. 2 shifts last year produced 200,000 cars.


According to you own figures guionM, the Magnum is at best meeting expectations. This differs from you original post, which would have had us believe that the Magnum was doing 50% better than the original target - a number which would have made Magnum sales close to equal with 300 sales. It isn't happening.
One lawyer's tactic is to bog down debates to specifics in the hope of not just diverting attention from the original point, but to produce an unrelated error in detail or point to sink the other side, and win the case. This is what you are trying to do here by diverting attention from the fact that Magnum is selling well above expectations by trying to attack it via model mix. It's very clever of you because since the 300 is selling at explosive levels, any level the Magnum sells at you can position it as a failure, despite the fact it's a huge success by any measure.

Just letting you know I'm on to you.

So I'll bring us back to the points that started all this:

1. Magnum is selling well above expectations, and is a sales success. (Fact proven).
2. Charger was not created at the last minute. (Fact proven)
3. Charger is not holding the fort down for some future mystical car Chrysler is planning. (Fact proven)

Everything else brought up beyond this is just diversions.

Sure, there was always supposed to be a "fullsized" Dodge LX sedan about a year after the initial 300/Magnum launch...
Thank you for changing your position after I posted my proof.

The big change was that it would be called "Charger." Another big change, is that the "Charger" is supposed to be focused on retail sales, unlike the rumored "Magnum sedan" that originally more fleet oriented.
Nope. Chrysler is getting away from fleet sales on it's cars, just like Ford is doing with their new models.


Yup, originally the Charger name was supposed to go on a somewhat smaller car with frameless side glass and a fastback profile - but still with 4-doors. It probably would have come a year later than the "Charger" we're actually getting. Think of the stillborn Charger as something similar to the Chrysler Airflite concept but with an available SRT-8 drivetrain. Yes, that's the car the we won't see for a while and might never see with the Dodge badge, let alone the Charger nameplate.
Wrong again. Chrysler initially planned the Charger to be on a full size platform. That's why it was used on a full size car in 1999 on their concept. I can tell you exactly whare you heard that rumor. When Chrysler made the Airflite concept, a few folks at www.allpar.com speculated that was Chrysler's sneek peek at the Dodge Charger, and this rumor took on a life of it's own & spread. In reality, the Dodge Charger was already done. If it wasn't for taking the spotlight from the Magnum & to a lesser degree the 300, we would have seen the car at last years auto show season.

As it is, the "Charger" name has been slapped on a far more ordinary car. It's obvious that the "Charger" represents a minimum investment, zero risk effort by Daimler-Chrysler. They'll make more money selling "Chargers" to retail customers than the would have made selling "Magnum sedans" to police, taxi and rental fleets.
Once again, you're off the mark and your "slapped" adjective shows a distain for the car, though it seems based on a bewildering array of misconceptions.

Minimal investment??
You can take the entire front clip off a 300 and put it on a Magnum, and no one will notice the difference. Ditto the doors. Meanwhile, the Charger has it's own body design. It's panels are unique to the car.
Ordinary car??
It's a rear drive sedan with an optional engine packing 390 lbs/ft of torque with Mercedes based or sourced components. There's nothing ordinary about it.
Make more money than selling Magnum Sedans??
Yes, because the car won't simply look like a Chrysler 300 with a Dodge Magnum nose.

Last edited by guionM; Dec 12, 2004 at 03:00 AM.
Old Dec 12, 2004 | 03:02 AM
  #32  
Meccadeth's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Originally Posted by guionM
Just letting you know I'm on to you.
~Debating new sig material~
Old Dec 12, 2004 | 03:39 AM
  #33  
teal98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Re: The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Okay, I'm a little confused.

The so-called midsize LX is purely speculative at this point then?

I haven't kept up with the fortunes of the Airflite, and what it means to Chrysler. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room between the Sebring and the 300 -- at least with respect to size. On the other hand, one might expect demand for RWD V6 and V8 cars that are smaller than a 300 -- at least a coupe.
Old Dec 12, 2004 | 11:24 AM
  #34  
redzed's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,954
Re: The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Originally Posted by teal98
Okay, I'm a little confused.

The so-called midsize LX is purely speculative at this point then?

I haven't kept up with the fortunes of the Airflite, and what it means to Chrysler. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room between the Sebring and the 300 -- at least with respect to size. On the other hand, one might expect demand for RWD V6 and V8 cars that are smaller than a 300 -- at least a coupe.
1. A "midsized" LX is on the way. Keep in mind that a "midsized" would only be about 6 inches shorter than the 300.

2. It's fair to that there won't be a 300 convertible, at least not as we know the 300, but there might be a Daimler-Chrysler convertible based on the LX platform.
Old Dec 12, 2004 | 12:42 PM
  #35  
SFireGT98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,232
From: Orlando, FL USA
Re: The Autoextremist on a 4 door Charger...good read!

Theres some severe ownage going on here from guionM folks.

And we're learning more little stuff about the Charger's coming along from it too!

I still believe that the Charger name should've been on a two door coupe, but I'm sure a 6.1 Hemi Charger is gonna rock.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
DirtyDaveW
Forced Induction
13
Dec 1, 2016 05:37 PM
birdblack
Appearance
5
Apr 20, 2015 04:24 PM
R@mpage
New Member Introduction
2
Apr 20, 2015 10:02 AM
cmdeshon
Parts Wanted
1
Dec 16, 2014 07:58 AM
z28projects4ever
Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion
9
Jul 16, 2002 07:48 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.