Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Anyone here read HOT ROD? (GM RWD aint dead)
Did anyone happen to catch the interview with Mark Reuss (GM Performance Division Executive Director) in the August 2005 issue of HOT ROD? (p 28-29)
A few of the notable parts:
HRM: How does the recent announcement that the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform has been postponed affect the status of performance rear-drive cars at GM, particularly a Camaro or GTO replacement?
Reuss: I get a lot of letters about Camaros and GTOs. We had to make some really painful decisions in the company, and some might say, ‘What’s the big deal?’ Well, it is a big deal because the Zeta platform was going to be our lower-cost platform that would have yielded some of these [market] entries like the GTO. But we haven’t explored all the possibilities of looking at some of the current rear-wheel-drive platforms like Sigma and Kappa and taking costs out of those. I think the assignment right now is to go through the exercise of taking the material cost out of the multi-link in the rear of Sigma and doing front struts instead of the expensive SLA front suspension with exotic materials. A low-cost RWD platform is something we’re going to have to do as a company. It’s my belief that Sigma is still the best architecture we could flex on something like that.
HRM: Where could a low-cost, performance-oriented rear-wheel-drive car like Chrysler’s 300C best help General Motors?
Reuss: We have to decide that as a company, but I hope we would explore the limits of what we could do for Chevrolet as the most affordable performance make. That’s the most volume that we move through a channel. Roughly 65% of [GM’s] market share comes through Chevrolet dealerships. We have a big opportunity to do something there.
HRM: What could GM do differently with a new Camaro to make it compete more successfully with the Ford Mustang than the last version did?
Reuss: With the last generation of the F-car, the thing that got us in trouble was the utility of the package on a daily basis. The car was beautiful, it was fast and fun, but it was tough getting past the package. We probably wouldn’t make that mistake again. Right now we’re letting Ford have the ponycar market. And the reason they have it is because they have everything from a V-6 up through the Shelbys and Cobras. They do it with one car, so that becomes a very viable business. If you go back and look at the history of Mustang and Camaro, Mustang was first and Camaro followed and then we got the volume. We got the volume because we went off an existing platform. We’ve got some architectures we could do that with again, but the business decisions have to come at a time we can afford to do it as a company.
…
HRM: Speaking of the Ecotec, the new Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky roadsters have a lot of performance potential. A Solstice with an Ecotec and a turbo would be a bad-*** little car.
Reuss: You’re going to see some cars at SEMA this year that take advantage of that very notion but in a road-racing-type format. These cars can do a lot more than just straight-line acceleration. A few of us fell on our swords to have only four cylinders in that architecture. You could make a helluva business case for V-6s because you could get a higher price point, but mass begets mass because all of a sudden you’ve got heavier corners, you’ve got a heavier tranny to handle the torque, and the car gets ruined.
HRM: You can leave the V-8 swaps to HOT ROD. One of our pet projects is to put an LS7 in a Solstice. It would be like a modern interpretation of the Shelby Cobra or a Lister Corvette.
Reuss: We can help you with that. We actually know that something very close to that fits.
A few of the notable parts:
HRM: How does the recent announcement that the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform has been postponed affect the status of performance rear-drive cars at GM, particularly a Camaro or GTO replacement?
Reuss: I get a lot of letters about Camaros and GTOs. We had to make some really painful decisions in the company, and some might say, ‘What’s the big deal?’ Well, it is a big deal because the Zeta platform was going to be our lower-cost platform that would have yielded some of these [market] entries like the GTO. But we haven’t explored all the possibilities of looking at some of the current rear-wheel-drive platforms like Sigma and Kappa and taking costs out of those. I think the assignment right now is to go through the exercise of taking the material cost out of the multi-link in the rear of Sigma and doing front struts instead of the expensive SLA front suspension with exotic materials. A low-cost RWD platform is something we’re going to have to do as a company. It’s my belief that Sigma is still the best architecture we could flex on something like that.
HRM: Where could a low-cost, performance-oriented rear-wheel-drive car like Chrysler’s 300C best help General Motors?
Reuss: We have to decide that as a company, but I hope we would explore the limits of what we could do for Chevrolet as the most affordable performance make. That’s the most volume that we move through a channel. Roughly 65% of [GM’s] market share comes through Chevrolet dealerships. We have a big opportunity to do something there.
HRM: What could GM do differently with a new Camaro to make it compete more successfully with the Ford Mustang than the last version did?
Reuss: With the last generation of the F-car, the thing that got us in trouble was the utility of the package on a daily basis. The car was beautiful, it was fast and fun, but it was tough getting past the package. We probably wouldn’t make that mistake again. Right now we’re letting Ford have the ponycar market. And the reason they have it is because they have everything from a V-6 up through the Shelbys and Cobras. They do it with one car, so that becomes a very viable business. If you go back and look at the history of Mustang and Camaro, Mustang was first and Camaro followed and then we got the volume. We got the volume because we went off an existing platform. We’ve got some architectures we could do that with again, but the business decisions have to come at a time we can afford to do it as a company.
…
HRM: Speaking of the Ecotec, the new Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky roadsters have a lot of performance potential. A Solstice with an Ecotec and a turbo would be a bad-*** little car.
Reuss: You’re going to see some cars at SEMA this year that take advantage of that very notion but in a road-racing-type format. These cars can do a lot more than just straight-line acceleration. A few of us fell on our swords to have only four cylinders in that architecture. You could make a helluva business case for V-6s because you could get a higher price point, but mass begets mass because all of a sudden you’ve got heavier corners, you’ve got a heavier tranny to handle the torque, and the car gets ruined.
HRM: You can leave the V-8 swaps to HOT ROD. One of our pet projects is to put an LS7 in a Solstice. It would be like a modern interpretation of the Shelby Cobra or a Lister Corvette.
Reuss: We can help you with that. We actually know that something very close to that fits.
Last edited by jg95z28; Jul 3, 2005 at 11:46 AM.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Anyone need help reading between the lines?
1) RWD and Camaro are not dead at GM.
2) Sigma or Kappa may hold the key.
3) GM wants to push affordable performance for the Chevrolet brand.
4) They already know a V8 fits in Solstice.
1) RWD and Camaro are not dead at GM.
2) Sigma or Kappa may hold the key.
3) GM wants to push affordable performance for the Chevrolet brand.
4) They already know a V8 fits in Solstice.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Note:
This is known as a Treasure Chest full of infomation.
Why?
It tells you:
1. Which chassis they are looking at expanding.
Combine this with GM-NA's previous statements about replacing Zeta with a variety of other chassis dependent on the car's purpose, and you have confirmation right here. You are looking at a tacit confirmation that GM is working on expanding Kappa beyond just the Solstice & Sky.
2. What GM-NA's chassis is going to be.
He comes right out and says struts instead of SLA. He says "material costs" out of the IRS (meaning replacing alumunum with lower cost steel and or iron). He also stated that Sigma is the chassis they are using as the starting point.
3. Which division this chassis is being done for.
He clearly states CHEVROLET. Not Buick or Pontiac, though they can come in later.
4. It confirms beyond any doubt that there is a Camaro under development.
There are market studies done prior to a car being developed. He is aware of what the problems were, without being directly tied to the development of the car (he's the performance division director). This would indicate that he knows the package he has to work with, and quite possibly has seen at the very least, the basics of the car so that his division can start with whatever it has to do.
5. When the new Camaro will be out.
He uses "when we can do it as a company" or "decide that as a company" with questions involving both the RWD sedan & the Camaro, tying the two together and leaving the 2 issues being decision and when to spend the money. This indicates that the work is either done or near done, and the wait is more of a timing issue than anything else.
Combine this info with:
* The fact that GM decided to scale down Zeta in NA as early as last year.
* GM was working on a Sigma or Zeta with struts as early as a year ago, even though Holden was going with SLA.
* GM halted funding on the RWD program, which means money was already being spent on actual hardware (planning, labor and computer development is essentially free).
* Once GM gives final approval, a vehicle can be in showrooms within 18-24 months.
You have enough info to put any "future vehicles" section of any popular car magazine to shame.
Let me know if I have to draw anyone any pictures as to what's going on.
Intel..... Gotta love it!
"...we haven’t explored all the possibilities of looking at some of the current rear-wheel-drive platforms like Sigma and Kappa and taking costs out of those.
...I think the assignment right now is to go through the exercise of taking the material cost out of the multi-link in the rear of Sigma and doing front struts instead of the expensive SLA front suspension with exotic materials.
...It’s my belief that Sigma is still the best architecture we could flex on something like that.
(re: a low cost RWD performance sedan) ...but I hope we would explore the limits of what we could do for Chevrolet as the most affordable performance make.
...With the last generation of the F-car, the thing that got us in trouble was the utility of the package on a daily basis. The car was beautiful, it was fast and fun, but it was tough getting past the package. We probably wouldn’t make that mistake again.
(on basing a Camaro off another chassis)...We got the volume because we went off an existing platform. We’ve got some architectures we could do that with again, but the business decisions have to come at a time we can afford to do it as a company.
...I think the assignment right now is to go through the exercise of taking the material cost out of the multi-link in the rear of Sigma and doing front struts instead of the expensive SLA front suspension with exotic materials.
...It’s my belief that Sigma is still the best architecture we could flex on something like that.
(re: a low cost RWD performance sedan) ...but I hope we would explore the limits of what we could do for Chevrolet as the most affordable performance make.
...With the last generation of the F-car, the thing that got us in trouble was the utility of the package on a daily basis. The car was beautiful, it was fast and fun, but it was tough getting past the package. We probably wouldn’t make that mistake again.
(on basing a Camaro off another chassis)...We got the volume because we went off an existing platform. We’ve got some architectures we could do that with again, but the business decisions have to come at a time we can afford to do it as a company.
Why?
It tells you:
1. Which chassis they are looking at expanding.
Combine this with GM-NA's previous statements about replacing Zeta with a variety of other chassis dependent on the car's purpose, and you have confirmation right here. You are looking at a tacit confirmation that GM is working on expanding Kappa beyond just the Solstice & Sky.
2. What GM-NA's chassis is going to be.
He comes right out and says struts instead of SLA. He says "material costs" out of the IRS (meaning replacing alumunum with lower cost steel and or iron). He also stated that Sigma is the chassis they are using as the starting point.
3. Which division this chassis is being done for.
He clearly states CHEVROLET. Not Buick or Pontiac, though they can come in later.
4. It confirms beyond any doubt that there is a Camaro under development.
There are market studies done prior to a car being developed. He is aware of what the problems were, without being directly tied to the development of the car (he's the performance division director). This would indicate that he knows the package he has to work with, and quite possibly has seen at the very least, the basics of the car so that his division can start with whatever it has to do.
5. When the new Camaro will be out.
He uses "when we can do it as a company" or "decide that as a company" with questions involving both the RWD sedan & the Camaro, tying the two together and leaving the 2 issues being decision and when to spend the money. This indicates that the work is either done or near done, and the wait is more of a timing issue than anything else.
Combine this info with:
* The fact that GM decided to scale down Zeta in NA as early as last year.
* GM was working on a Sigma or Zeta with struts as early as a year ago, even though Holden was going with SLA.
* GM halted funding on the RWD program, which means money was already being spent on actual hardware (planning, labor and computer development is essentially free).
* Once GM gives final approval, a vehicle can be in showrooms within 18-24 months.
You have enough info to put any "future vehicles" section of any popular car magazine to shame.
Let me know if I have to draw anyone any pictures as to what's going on.
Intel..... Gotta love it!
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
It would be very hard to believe that GM is NOT working on a Camaro. However, 18-24 months from right now is still a MY08 car (at the earliest). I damn sure hope there is something by then.
Any chance at all that the car has been given final approval and we just don't know it?
One other comment....
Ummmm.....duh. I'm a car guy - an enthusiast. Even so, the "package on a daily basis" was one of the main reasons I sold my T/A.
PS...he said "Camaro".
Any chance at all that the car has been given final approval and we just don't know it?
One other comment....
With the last generation of the F-car, the thing that got us in trouble was the utility of the package on a daily basis. The car was beautiful, it was fast and fun, but it was tough getting past the package. We probably wouldn’t make that mistake again
PS...he said "Camaro".
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
I hope this doesn't mean struts on the new Camaro.
Where's Charlie at?
Where's Charlie at?

On a completely different subject, you know how our Bavarian friends use struts with very sophisticated double pivot control arms. They work pretty well.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
It would be very hard to believe that GM is NOT working on a Camaro. However, 18-24 months from right now is still a MY08 car (at the earliest). I damn sure hope there is something by then.
Using that logic, we could see something as soon as "next" car show season as a 2007 model.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD? (GM RWD aint dead)
Originally Posted by jg95z28
But we haven’t explored all the possibilities of looking at some of the current rear-wheel-drive platforms like Sigma and Kappa and taking costs out of those. I think the assignment right now is to go through the exercise of taking the material cost out of the multi-link in the rear of Sigma and doing front struts instead of the expensive SLA front suspension with exotic materials. A low-cost RWD platform is something we’re going to have to do as a company. It’s my belief that Sigma is still the best architecture we could flex on something like that.
Originally Posted by evok
Start with sigma wide and cut the wheelbase to 113in. Trim the overhangs and make the vehicle 188in OAL. Be sure to take out all the fluff that adds cost for NVH Cadillac reasons. Not needed for this application. The quiet steel and foam have to go.
Front Suspension:
Simple McPherson strut set up to save cost.
Rear Suspension:
Rear live axle from the SSR. It already is validated to the 6.0l V8
Front Suspension:
Simple McPherson strut set up to save cost.
Rear Suspension:
Rear live axle from the SSR. It already is validated to the 6.0l V8
Anyone else see something going on there?
If ANYONE doesn't get it PM me and I will explain it.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD? (GM RWD aint dead)
Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
taken from here
Anyone else see something going on there?
If ANYONE doesn't get it PM me and I will explain it.
Anyone else see something going on there?
If ANYONE doesn't get it PM me and I will explain it.
Explain it.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD? (GM RWD aint dead)
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Explain it.
edit: link to new thread here
Last edited by 91_z28_4me; Jul 3, 2005 at 02:56 PM.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by jg95z28
Correction. That's 18-24 mos from A YEAR AGO.
Using that logic, we could see something as soon as "next" car show season as a 2007 model.
Using that logic, we could see something as soon as "next" car show season as a 2007 model.

Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by Z284ever
No comment on that subject.
On a completely different subject, you know how our Bavarian friends use struts with very sophisticated double pivot control arms. They work pretty well.
On a completely different subject, you know how our Bavarian friends use struts with very sophisticated double pivot control arms. They work pretty well.
Smooth ... you should consider politics.
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Ok. So the official GM approval for a new Camaro was given a year ago. Correct?
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by jg95z28
What if the Camaro is a total skunkworks project and has already received approval, but they haven't officially announced it to the public? 

You mentioned a year ago, so I ask again - do you have some knowledge of GM "approving" a Camaro ~a year ago? Or are you another member of the winky guy club?
Re: Anyone here read HOT ROD?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
...Or are you another member of the winky guy club?


