"American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
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Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
The problem Chris is that we are getting more "open trade" but NOT "Equal Trade", and it's killing the dollar and driving inflation up.
My company for example:
Built a model of Truck in Mexico b/c they said they needed more Return on Investment and to remain competetive, said they paid a "fair" wage, saved 8K/unit, AND STILL raised the price of the unit by 2K.(And we also had to negotiate a contract FULL of concessions.) When is it enough???
When we're all broke, and can't afford health insurance, or our kids education, or to buy a decent house or to buy one of those New vehicles they're producing?????
It's just plain ole ugly GREED brother...for those who wish to see it...
Globalization is ONLY GOOD under certain conditions...and to date we are NOT meeting those conditions.
Just look at the gap growing between the wealthy and lower classes, it's higher than it has EVER been!
There's agenda's in high places at work which care little for any of us...and we're helping them.
My company for example:
Built a model of Truck in Mexico b/c they said they needed more Return on Investment and to remain competetive, said they paid a "fair" wage, saved 8K/unit, AND STILL raised the price of the unit by 2K.(And we also had to negotiate a contract FULL of concessions.) When is it enough???
When we're all broke, and can't afford health insurance, or our kids education, or to buy a decent house or to buy one of those New vehicles they're producing?????
It's just plain ole ugly GREED brother...for those who wish to see it...
Globalization is ONLY GOOD under certain conditions...and to date we are NOT meeting those conditions.
Just look at the gap growing between the wealthy and lower classes, it's higher than it has EVER been!
There's agenda's in high places at work which care little for any of us...and we're helping them.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,276
From: Chattanoga & Franklin
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by redzed
Try Silao, Mexico.
Just what is it you do for a living?
Just what is it you do for a living?
Like I said, they make them in Arlington Texas as well as Mexico.
http://www.automotivewebtv.com/moxie...news/164.shtml
Right now I am a college student at Middle Tennessee State University studying computer information systems. I also have a part time job at Office Depot. Anyways, this question seems to be a typical tactic of yours. Trying to change the subject.
Where are your Armada pics? Oh that's right, you don't own a digital camera, or a 35mm camera for that matter. And you don't know anybody who owns either a digital or 35mm. Right.
Last edited by AronZ28; Feb 13, 2005 at 11:26 PM.
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Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by AronZ28
"Yes the Smyrna plant might employ many Tennesseans and has been a catylist for growth in Middle Tennessee. But consider that Nissian has been stealing sales away from the Big 3 for 35 years."
If someone buys a Nissan or a Toyota insted of a Ford or Chevy, it's because the buyer decided the Nissan or Toyota was better suited to their needs or offered more for the money, etc...that's not steeling...that's competition.
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Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by Jason E
You are way oversimplifying the matter, with all due respect. Likely, you buy into the theory Bush gives about all the jobs created under his administration. OK, I'll believe that...but what KINDS of jobs are they? Does the expansion of Wal Mart really HELP anyone?
The perfect example of this was in the Wall Street Journal today. As part of the article, a man was interviewed who used to work in an artillery factory in AR. The plant closed down, and he was laid off. He could not possibly replace his $18.50/hr job at any local place. All of the "foreign competition" had driven labor rates down to no more than $14/hr for the same job. So now, the man had to sell his house, move in with his mother and long haul trucks to make money. Do you have ANY idea how often this happens?
Its easy to say its a natural cycle. But the problem is, QUALITY jobs are getting more scarce as more and more manufacturing moves away and American businesses go under. The article was all about this area of Northern AR where the poor to rich gap keeps getting higher and higher. You say GM opens and closes plants, but do you realize in my short lifetime of 24 years how many jobs have been cut and NOT been replaced. And it isn't simply due to efficiency innovations due to modern machinery. Its because the demand for U.S. built products is declining because people bought what was superior years ago (aka tons of Toyotas/Hondas), but now that they could give a car made in their own country a fair chance because its comparable, they frankly don't care.
Stepping off the soapbox now, as no one probably cares what I have to say anyway. I'm off to the living room to polish my just-purchased 17" American Racing Fusions I bought to put on the GP later this Spring. Proudly made in CA
And yes, I checked that before purchase
The perfect example of this was in the Wall Street Journal today. As part of the article, a man was interviewed who used to work in an artillery factory in AR. The plant closed down, and he was laid off. He could not possibly replace his $18.50/hr job at any local place. All of the "foreign competition" had driven labor rates down to no more than $14/hr for the same job. So now, the man had to sell his house, move in with his mother and long haul trucks to make money. Do you have ANY idea how often this happens?
Its easy to say its a natural cycle. But the problem is, QUALITY jobs are getting more scarce as more and more manufacturing moves away and American businesses go under. The article was all about this area of Northern AR where the poor to rich gap keeps getting higher and higher. You say GM opens and closes plants, but do you realize in my short lifetime of 24 years how many jobs have been cut and NOT been replaced. And it isn't simply due to efficiency innovations due to modern machinery. Its because the demand for U.S. built products is declining because people bought what was superior years ago (aka tons of Toyotas/Hondas), but now that they could give a car made in their own country a fair chance because its comparable, they frankly don't care.
Stepping off the soapbox now, as no one probably cares what I have to say anyway. I'm off to the living room to polish my just-purchased 17" American Racing Fusions I bought to put on the GP later this Spring. Proudly made in CA
And yes, I checked that before purchase Citing a specific person and that person's challenges does not invalidate the overall argument...true, this person the WSJ talks about may not be able to replace his $18.50/hr job immieiately and that's unfortunate for him (been there done that) but what is the option? Should the government step in and make an employer keep employing people just so guys like this can have a job? Here are some options...how about the person move to where the jobs are? How about learning a new skill (or two or three) that employer's will pay $18.50/hr or more for? The unemployment rate is 100% if YOU are unemployed but that doesn't mean that the overall economy is or isn't doing well. And a person or group of people being displaced is very sad for those people but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing for the country.
I'm 50 and so far, I've made four major "career" changes during my adult life and expect to make at least one if not two more before I retire. I wouldn't have gotten very far if I had spent all my time complaining about the careers I had/decided to leave behind and not embraced new opportunities.
We are very long past the day when anyone can expect to come out of HS (or even have only one four year degree for that matter) and expect to land one "quality" job that will last our whole life...that simply isn't a realistic picture any more and there are lots of reasons for that - laying it all at the feet of "unfair foreign competition" is a convenient scapegoat but a convenient target doesn't make an argument valid.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 764
From: Crystal Falls, MI USA
Originally Posted by redzed
Try Silao, Mexico .
This entire thread makes me sick, reading how people really fall into the mentality that assembled import company cars in the US are domestic and that some people don't even care where they're made, period. To the latter type, I hope you never have a job here in the US where a foreign company comes in and knocks you out of a job because the consumers of your product or service are of the same mentality. Your mind and perception should change quickly. If it doesn't, I feel bad for you.
Here's a way to look at the situation:
If Chevrolet assembled the Cobalt in Japan, how do you think it would be considered to the Japanese?; as a domestic (Japanese car) or an import (American car)? One thing I can tell you in certainty is that no matter how domestic the Japanese people though it was, they wouldn't buy it out of pride. If you ask me, the US could use a lot more of this thinking.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by 2MCHPSI
Toyota just had a tv ad stating that they employ 200k people in the United States. Interesting.
I will buy the best car for the money, no matter what brand it is.
I will buy the best car for the money, no matter what brand it is.
Last edited by Chrome383Z; Feb 14, 2005 at 02:24 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 745
From: New Jersey
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by 90rocz
The problem Chris is that we are getting more "open trade" but NOT "Equal Trade", and it's killing the dollar and driving inflation up.
My company for example:
Built a model of Truck in Mexico b/c they said they needed more Return on Investment and to remain competetive, said they paid a "fair" wage, saved 8K/unit, AND STILL raised the price of the unit by 2K.(And we also had to negotiate a contract FULL of concessions.) When is it enough???
When we're all broke, and can't afford health insurance, or our kids education, or to buy a decent house or to buy one of those New vehicles they're producing?????
It's just plain ole ugly GREED brother...for those who wish to see it...
Globalization is ONLY GOOD under certain conditions...and to date we are NOT meeting those conditions.
Just look at the gap growing between the wealthy and lower classes, it's higher than it has EVER been!
There's agenda's in high places at work which care little for any of us...and we're helping them.
My company for example:
Built a model of Truck in Mexico b/c they said they needed more Return on Investment and to remain competetive, said they paid a "fair" wage, saved 8K/unit, AND STILL raised the price of the unit by 2K.(And we also had to negotiate a contract FULL of concessions.) When is it enough???
When we're all broke, and can't afford health insurance, or our kids education, or to buy a decent house or to buy one of those New vehicles they're producing?????
It's just plain ole ugly GREED brother...for those who wish to see it...
Globalization is ONLY GOOD under certain conditions...and to date we are NOT meeting those conditions.
Just look at the gap growing between the wealthy and lower classes, it's higher than it has EVER been!
There's agenda's in high places at work which care little for any of us...and we're helping them.
Actually did a report on GM/Toyota, and While you think that 24 dollar an hour job paid to 3 workers to screw in bolts is fair... Toyota pays someone else $14 an hour to do the same total work as 3 of gm employees.
The Big 3, er, 2 created massive problems by being greedy and not planning for hte future. Now their health care and pensions are out of this world. Where do you get the money to pay for the rediculous wages of the 80's? cheap cars at high prices.
No american should have to pay for garbage at a high price whereas you can get something overseas for less. It is up to the corporations and the us government to make sure hte transition from the top of the world to the equal playing field of globalization goes smoothly, but by no means should consumers have to suffer.
After owning all domestics, mostly GM, we said enough. Now we have better quality products from Audi, and Nissan, hell, if Caddie and GM wasnt there, for the same price. As consumers GM is here to serve us, not the other way around, keep that in mind.
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Michigan alone has LOST 200k manufacturing jobs to outsourcing (overseas work) in the last 3 years. Open your eye's people...
Net job creation is the only stat that really matters.
Look at what happened to all the switchboard operators when the automated switch board was invented. That's thousands of people unemplyed overnight in the 1950s. How many of them do you think stayed jobless until they died?
Exactly how do you neo-Pat Buchanon types plan to stem the tide of outsourcing and save US jobs? Increasing import tarrifs?
I can tell you exactly how that will work. Retail prices for almost everything will go up overnight. In the short term offshore job relocation will slow. Then , as disposeable income dries up because everything you buy is now 2x what it used to cost, people will start getting laid off. Except now that the economy is in shambles and costs are too high for economic growth to continue, there's no other new jobs for the unemployed to move into. Soon you have rampant unemployment with no cure in sight. The ones that get hurt in this are the little guys earning $15/hr, becaue the wealthy can weather the storm.
So the very people you think you are saving from the evils of capitalism and globalization end up screwed by your plan to save American jobs.
Perhaps this whole argument would get taken a little more seriously if overall unemployment were a bit higher than 5.4%. Need I remind everyone here that economists consider 5% "full employment".
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Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by Aeromaks
The Big 3, er, 2 created massive problems by being greedy and not planning for hte future. Now their health care and pensions are out of this world. Where do you get the money to pay for the rediculous wages of the 80's? cheap cars at high prices.
American workers overpaid?! Hardly...
You pay any less and people will not work. Why? Because of our F***cking social system that allows people to sit on their *** and bring money in for nothing. But that is another issue to debate...
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 753
From: Annapolis Md. USA
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Michigan alone has LOST 200k manufacturing jobs to outsourcing (overseas work) in the last 3 years. Open your eye's people...
And you can thank GM specifically for outsourcing 280 million in contracts to China last year alone.. So what now, you are buying "American" to save jobs, While GM shifts jobs to China anyway..Kind of ironic isn't it.
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Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Michigan alone has LOST 200k manufacturing jobs to outsourcing (overseas work) in the last 3 years. Open your eye's people...
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by 2MCHPSI
And you can thank GM specifically for outsourcing 280 million in contracts to China last year alone.. So what now, you are buying "American" to save jobs, While GM shifts jobs to China anyway..Kind of ironic isn't it.
'Round and Round we go
'I'm not against globalization (of trade - govt yes), but I just /hope/ that the American economy survives it as we have to be the one giving; not receiving. And at the current rate, doesn't look good...
Last edited by Chrome383Z; Feb 14, 2005 at 03:43 PM.
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by redzed
Michigan is a very business unfriendly state - thanks to the influence of organized labor on state lawmakers. Believe-it-or-not, the Canadian Province of Ontario is actually a far better place to locate industry.
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Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Can't say I disagree, but Jobs lost are Jobs lost...
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: "American" Vs "Foreign" Cars and Trucks…should be “buy American”?
Again, Not disagreeing. US has to many regulations: EPA, whatnot and redtape. These regulations are squeezing the economy to death no doubt about it.