For the record I am not anti-American car, but that is what you get labeled around here if you question the benefit of buying American cars over domestically built imports.

Fact is it should be GM and Ford's jobs to sell us on their cars, not to crutch on our patriotism to sell cars. You and me should be buying domestics because they are better cars, if they are.

Right now, sometimes they are the better car, sometimes they aren't. I don't see any huge hurt to US workers by buying cars built by US workers, regardless of where these fabled "profits" go.

The ultimate irony here is the anti-capitalists around here are now stuck in a position of DEFENDING Large US corporations, usually their biggest target, even though they are blamed for all the "outsourcing" of little man jobs to other countries, while foreign manufacturers such as BMW, Volvo, Mercedes and the Japanese Automakers are building new plants here and hiring thousands in addition to all the supplier contracts.

 

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A very excellent question and in a way, the opposite way of asking what I was trying to ask in the first place/get people to see with this thread.

I find it amazing that some of the most "buy American" advocates who have chimed in on this thread see absolutely no disconnect when the would say you shouldn't buy a Nissan Altima (built in the US with mostly US sourced content) because it's a "foreign" car but who own a fourth generation F Body built in Canada and/or a re-badged GTO???

What I've been trying to point out is that there really isn't any such thing as a truly and totally "American" car nameplate any more and hasn't been for some time now...people still precieve "Ford" or "GM" or "Dodge" as "American" but when you REALLY look under the surface, the true differences between a Ford F150 and a Nissan Titan are pretty small.

For me, this slide into the pit happened when there became no such thing as a true Pontiac or Chevrolet or Oldsmobille engine any more and the true distinctions have become blured more and more ever since.

 

What about the "seat belt Law"? How is this moral? By making you be safe, in someone else's opion? Tell that to the score of children with major internal trama from slamming into a seat belt...It's a REVENUE generator, nothing less nothing more...be careful using words like ALL, ALWAYS, NEVER etc.

Now who sounds like a pompus jerk??
Once you understand that these Corporations are all ultimately owned or controlled by the IMF or International Bank"sters", and you read farther into your history than yesterday's USA TODAY, you'll understand.

Are you fresh out of college? I used to believe this, partly b/c the "nice" people in lower-level management I delt with had NO CLUE! to the REAL workings and "heart" of the company. And those "nice" people usually didn't last long, while the "jerks" were secure. Now after "15 years", I conclude my research thus-far that, companies (especially larger ones) are like "sunny day freinds", at the first sign of rain, your all alone and SOAKED! ie;inherently evil and good at making you believe otherwise.
(Ever heard of "California Snow"?)

I personally worked in the engineering dept at a large manufacturer of CRT's, and they were fine as long as I pulled 18-hour days conducting production tests, logging data, solving production problems and ISO standardizing all of their drawings & documentation. But when the long hours began to wear on me and I came in late a few times, I was threatened with dismissal. Even though those "lates" were under 10 minutes, and I had logged more hours than almost all the engineers. I was told, "well we have to be fair to everyone and stick to "policy". Never mind that I logged almost 3X their hours per week(fair to me?) and all of the "Comp-Time" that I was supposed to receive, that NEVER materialized.
All I seem hear from you is a bunch of "armchair" rheteric, and quotes. Are you getting out there in the real world, talking to real people, not playing from Headlines and othe Corporate brainwash. The IMF owns ALL: major rags, News agencies, radio and newspapers. Look closely at the symbols on you major news networks...if your eyes aren't WIDE SHUT.
(Or symbols of major Corporations for that matter...)

(We're the frog in the pot, Socialism is the Fire, incremently turned up more and more, until it's too late to jump out.)(PS: I'm not saying anything that isn't easily verified here on our internet, it's a wonderful tool.. )

 

One question; How do you think these foreign companies can afford to "build factories here in the US"...from what source is the majority of that income. As the Communists were fond of saying, we're ripened to the point of falling off the vine, and they haven't had to fire ONE shot....(..and yes they're still around, just not where you think.)
I'm particularly fond of a Japanese saying, in this situation, which working briefly for them I heard many times, as jesting: "Buisness is WAR..."

Look at what Winston Churchill wrote back in 1920!

He observes: "From the days of Spartacus-(Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx), to those of Trotsky, Bela Kun, Rosa Luxembourg, and Emma Goldman, this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played a definitely recognizable role in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the nineteenth century, and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and 'America' have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads, and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

(check out http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/timeline.html )

 

It legislates morality because as a society we have decided a child's safety is more important than their parents' right not to belt them in. We've decided a child's life has value and that is a moral choice.

Way too easy dude, give me a harder one.

 

Um, NO. I am 30 years old, I am a Masters degree holder in Public Administration with an emphasis on public policy....government management in esssense. Again, your condescention annoys me, yet its effective at knocking me off balance.

You fail to make an convincing argument, you just dance all around the issue without ever providing anything concrete. Your personal interpretation of how the world works is not valid evidence.

I'm fully aware the Commies are still out there. Most of them teach at our Universities, e.g. Ward Churchill. They are all anti-capitalist and anti-American. They hate gloablization as much as you do, which should indicate to anyone reading this something about where you stand on things.

I find it funny you seem convinced the Communists have us by the *****. Everybody thought the USSR was an inevitable, perpetual machine right up until the week they fell apart. No one saw it coming and many throughout the 70s and 80s believed it was mankinds destiny that Communism would overtake the planet. I guess that kind of thinking makes you giddy like a schoolgirl, but to me it is just naive. Guess what? Churchill is DEAD and he did not live to see the fall of the USSR. To him, maybe the spreading of the iron curtain was inevitable, as after WWII he lost faith in America as FDR abandoned the American-British paradigm because he thought we could become allies with Russia. If you put Winston in the proper context you'd understand that he did not have the gift of foresight.

And yet here you are, the defender of the proletariat, telling me its wrong to buy a domestically built foreign brand car because it means foreign despots own more of our economy. That seems bad until you realize they need our customers to survive. What are they going to do, turn off the spigots and then let their own people starve and their corporations go broke? Not to mention that would put Americans out of work too. So you are MORE in favor of me buying a Mazda because at least some of the profits come back here, but where do they go? They get reinvested to grow the corporation more and some goes back to share holders. That hardly improves the life of the little man as much as actually having a job. Oh the irony of this whole argument is just wonderfully hillarious. I have an admitted socialist 1) fearmongering over the rise of the Communists 20 years after Communism was officially discredited among anyone with half a brain (University social sciences professors exempted due to their lack of the reason half of the brain) 2) defending large multinational corporations simply because their HQ is located on American soil, and 3) Arguing in circles and calling me names because he cannot prove his posit: That buying foreign cars is bad for America regardless of where they are made or what nationality of workers puts them together.

You see, your big mistake is you're having to argue in these huge circles of generality and quoting Churchill and what not because you cannot specifically address the question. You are trying to turn this into an ideological or metaphysical debate when all that is really needed are some hard numbers. But since there seems to be a deficit of those, you are jumping off the deep end.

Perhaps your fear is that if the numbers come up against you, your whole world paradigm will be rendered invalid, and you can't handle that. I prefer reason to hyperbole, thank you.

 

Yeah!! Well, Chris, you are still a young wipper-snapper in my book (of course, I can still remember when we road horses to get around and we were all arguing about how bad it was for the economy in general and for all the guggy manufacturers in particular, when the horseless carriage started showing up!

 

I cry every time I think of all the carriage maker employees that were put out of business by the automobile. The world surely would be better off if we outlawed innovation and progress, because then no one would ever lose a job and be forced to find another one.

Creative destruction be damned, I'm off to find the nearest Luddite convention!

 

Luddite lol
you know what hurts our economy more than buying imports?

selling over $500 billion in US bonds to foreign governments like Japan and China cuz we spend more than we got...per year!! those are basically like low-interest loans that we owe them

Now Greenspan is calling for consumption taxes to help the gov

ok, sorry for the temporary hijack...back to japan-bashing yall

 

I don't believe I've ever bashed Japan, just the unfair trade agreements with them, by them. In fact I have had some very close Japanese engineer freinds, men of unquesrtionable honor. More than I can say of some of their Domestic counterparts. I do believe STILL that investing in Domestic companies does and will make us strong again, even though we're currently in a very weak state.

I'm NOT a child, but am treated as one by being FORCED by extortion, to wear a seat belt here in Ohio. I'm old enough to be shot and killed in Iraq, or jump out of airplanes; but I can't drive w/o a seat belt... Maybe they should put them on motorcycles??


Have you actully listened to yourself...me condescending... ...is the pot calling the kettle black? I am your senior by 8 years btw, not that it matters, my point was you sounded full of education, empty of life experience...IMO.
If you care to, look at the web-site I listed, with, I know this is a hard one, an OPEN mind, you will see that it is not quote=communism that I refer to but the force that gave birth to it, which is still alive and well.(a force of which I am opposed.) It began, in short, by a little know figure, little know by his own choosing, named Adam Weishaupt(code named "Sparticus"). He began a little known and less understood organization, known as the Illuminati. Later Karl Marx would basically restate Weishaupt's outlines for a One World Govt, and call it the Communist Manifesto. With names like Albert Pike, The House of Rothchild, JP Morgan, the Rockerfellers etc etc....was what W.Churchill was refering to, who when he refused to join was told to look for their power to be shown on Tuesday 1929, on Wallstreet. Churchill was very concerned, but also a stubborn and honorable man.
Maybe this is irrelevant to you as well:

If you can't comprehend what is beneath the surface with you Master's degree, our conversation is at an end.......

 

It should have ended a long time ago but even after I stopped addressing you and moved on to other debates within this thread you couldn't resist getting in the last word.

Its pretty clear neither one of us is going to convince the other of anything, so why do you keep trying?

Go on continuing to think I'm an idiot and I'll go on continuing to think you are just wrong. That smug attitude of intellectual superiority is why your side continues to lose elections.

I'm guilty of humoring you far too long in this tired thread.

 

I think when people start talking about the” Illuminati” it's well past time to put this thread to rest - Art Bell (who I love to listen to) may be interested in those theories but I don't think this is the appropriate forum.

Were I you, 90rocz, I think I would spend more time enjoying my IROC and a bit less time reading New World Order conspiracy theories.

I do wish you (and all), well.

 

90rocz: I didn't fully respond to your last post this morning because I don't care to get all riled up first thing through the door at work. Now that its friday afternoon I'll guve you a rebuttal before hopefully putting this thread to rest once and for all.

That may or may not be true, we're not here to debate the merits of the law, but the fact is the law does legislate morality. It may not be a morality you like but it DOES legislate morality.

The sole reason you brought this up was to debate me on whether all laws legislate morality. So, when I proved your example clearly does, you switch from the discussion of child seat belt laws to a rant against the unfairness of adult seat belt laws?

So, again, you've veered way off the original point. Besides, this rant seems awfully libertarian for somebody who claims to be a socialist.

Well, that would be your opinion, of course, and those are like butt holes as they say. You were the one that brought up age/maturity first, which seems to indicate that it DOES or at least did matter to you until your ASSumption about me was proven incorrect. I was just stating mine to clarify myself as the person whom you were addressing.

Like Robert suggested more politely than I'm about to, I don't know many intelligent people that legitimately buy in to the global government conspiracy stuff. I abhor communism far more than I care to get into here, I think it is/was one of the greatest evils ever perpetrated upon mankind, but I am still perplexed how a socialist, whose ideology owes so much to Marx & Co, is so concerned about communism but seems equally preoccupied by the evils of capitalism.

Yes those fringe global government movements are out there, there was even a Clinton Administration official who was a proponent of one world government, but a) these people are not in power here in the US today, b) I see the likelihood of us handing over our sovereignty to any global body about as much as snowballs surviving in hell as long the Democrats (having been captured by the far left) keep losing elections, and c) (most important) WHAT IN THE WORLD does any of this have to do with the point at hand, which is the relative benefit of domestic car brands vs. domestically built foreign car brands?

You've gone wayyyyyy off the reservation and I'm not even sure what point you are trying to prove at this point. Lets comply with Bob and just let this sad little thread end finally.

 

"Therories", Robert are NOT based on OVER 200 YEARS of HARD FACTUAL evidence, history is there as a learning tool. You know, you should never think a man crazy unless you walk a mile in his shoes. Do you remember, not so long ago, a man claimed the world was ROUND? And how was he received??And NOW what do we think of him???Why do you believe that NOTHING seems to get better(..and I'm not talking about technology..)??
WE HAVE LEARNED NOTHING FROM OUR PAST, as a people.
I CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WORLD AROUND HIM, am I?
I'll tell you what, prove me wrong...to yourself...in your own time...if you dare? You will find a paradigm beyond belief, but as scientific law states: when you eliminate the other possibilities, what is left, no matter how improbable, MUST be the truth...
I never hold anger towards anyone just tring to shed some light on the root causes of problems such as the one that brought about this thread.
I'm sorry but, WHAT are you talikng about?? I have never claimed to be a Socialist! I stated the fact that "WE" (US citizens)are beeing fed Socialism incrementaly, so as not to be detected, or rejected.(OF WHICH I AM OPPOSED)
Do you know about the CFR, Counsil on Foreign affairs? Well, they produce many Senators and Congresmen etc, and are DIRECTLY run by the Illuminati, and are NOT under ANY governmanental control, about as Federal as "Federal Express", same goes for the "Federal Reserve".(Not Federal and no longer a Reserve.)
No Chris, I beg to differ, tho you were probably brainwashed into accepting this in route to your Corporately sponsered Master's indoctrination. Maybe it would've been acceptable if you had stated that, "the PURPOSE of law was to legislate morality. Men are NOT GOD, therefore have NO true sense of morality to legislate.

No hard feelings, Chris, Robert or others...

 

Granted, this post by Lew was posted some time back, but it was in response to Robert's post about leaving the USA flag sticker on the back of his Nissans. Lew, great minds think alike

I love it when I see import cars with American flag stickers on it. I laugh too. I mean, I have one on my GP, but seeing as how it's actually an American car, it seems to make more sense than on the back of a foreign one. I posted awhile back I was withdrawing from this thread because every time I read it I got so mad watching people justifying their import car purchase I wanted to throw my keyboard out the window. Go ahead, buy the import...but like Lew and I agree, don't sit here and justify it as being the same as buying GM or Ford. ITS NOT!!!!!!!!! A second grader can figure this out...why some of you cannot is a mystery to me.

Want to be patriotic? Don't do the easy thing and throw on a $1.49 US flag. Go to a dealership and buy an American car. No one has ever disputed the fact that buying an American car keeps MORE money in the US than a foreign one. To me, that's the sign of patriotism...

Not some flag on the back of a Nissan. Lew, I'll be laughing right along with you...