All this talk of engines has got me thinking...
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Anyone here under the delusion the SS was faster then the Z/28? (67-70)
375hp L89 396 could take a 290hp 302---and yes I know they were underated. But I have road tests too---in 100% show room stock trim the Z/28 was at
best a 14.5
And while exotic pieces, ala Z/28 were plentiful back in the 60's---they cost way more now due to emsions ect
375hp L89 396 could take a 290hp 302---and yes I know they were underated. But I have road tests too---in 100% show room stock trim the Z/28 was at
best a 14.5
And while exotic pieces, ala Z/28 were plentiful back in the 60's---they cost way more now due to emsions ect
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
So did the base model, though... making it hard to call them a "Z28 thing"...
So did the base model, though... making it hard to call them a "Z28 thing"...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Z284ever
True Darth. My point was, that from '78 thru '92 hood scoops (even if they were just ornaments), were a standard part of the Z/28 package.
True Darth. My point was, that from '78 thru '92 hood scoops (even if they were just ornaments), were a standard part of the Z/28 package.
The thing that confuses me so much about this stance is that those who literally hate the fact that the SS was a 'step above' the Z28 have no problem whatsoever about the IROC-Z being the same exact thing on the 3rd gens...
Thread Starter
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From: Arlington, Texas
And so, here we are right back at the begining of the thread...with the SS already annointed as the top Camaro for a possible 5th gen...what of the Z28? Should we continue to devalue it by having the SS on top, should we drop it altogether as redundant? My feeling is that SS should (and will be for that matter) the top Camaro strictly from a marketing/public perception point of view. Not only because of recent history (and the general car buying public doesn't factor in the 60's in their car buying decisions), but also to be in line w/ the rest of the Chevrolet lineup.
However, I felt like there would be enough people that would want a 1LE/Z06 type car, that the Z/28 could be made an OPTION which would include a bunch of OFF THE SHELF PARTS from SLP or whoever..which would go a long way in putting on alot of the mods that alot of us had to do ourselves, after the purchase. Lets face it, the 1LE's were never big time sellers, and were NEVER marketed. Only people who were up on their Camaros knew the thing existed, and what it would mean to own one (in terms of ride, options restrictions, ect). IF you had a RPOZ28, you would know you were getting a loud, harder riding, and frankly less user friendly car than you would get w/ an SS...but if that's what you wanted...HERE IT IS! My feeling is that the Z28 option would not sell more than a few hundred, maybe a 1000 a year, but to the people who bought them, they would be a fairly rare ride, w/ lots of good equipment that you couldn't have gotten from the SS.
As far as the hole that the Z28 would leave in the model lineup, all you would have to do is take the 3 Z28 badges off the car, and call it a Camaro 5.7, or a Camaro V-8, or whatever. Kind of like a modern day B4C.
The fact that GM REALLY wants to limit Camaro to 2 engines it seems, and have the SS as the top model, doesn't leave alot of room for Z28 in the lineup. Having it only as an option, likely a very seldomly chosen one at that, would give some substance and viability to the name, not to mention exclusivity. It would fill it's own niche, not be a dumbed down version of the SS, or a base camaro w/ a black roof (in appearance).
However, I felt like there would be enough people that would want a 1LE/Z06 type car, that the Z/28 could be made an OPTION which would include a bunch of OFF THE SHELF PARTS from SLP or whoever..which would go a long way in putting on alot of the mods that alot of us had to do ourselves, after the purchase. Lets face it, the 1LE's were never big time sellers, and were NEVER marketed. Only people who were up on their Camaros knew the thing existed, and what it would mean to own one (in terms of ride, options restrictions, ect). IF you had a RPOZ28, you would know you were getting a loud, harder riding, and frankly less user friendly car than you would get w/ an SS...but if that's what you wanted...HERE IT IS! My feeling is that the Z28 option would not sell more than a few hundred, maybe a 1000 a year, but to the people who bought them, they would be a fairly rare ride, w/ lots of good equipment that you couldn't have gotten from the SS.
As far as the hole that the Z28 would leave in the model lineup, all you would have to do is take the 3 Z28 badges off the car, and call it a Camaro 5.7, or a Camaro V-8, or whatever. Kind of like a modern day B4C.
The fact that GM REALLY wants to limit Camaro to 2 engines it seems, and have the SS as the top model, doesn't leave alot of room for Z28 in the lineup. Having it only as an option, likely a very seldomly chosen one at that, would give some substance and viability to the name, not to mention exclusivity. It would fill it's own niche, not be a dumbed down version of the SS, or a base camaro w/ a black roof (in appearance).
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Why is it that some people don't want the Z/28 to be a real Z/28? No one is saying to drop the SS. Is there some sort of underground bias developing against the Z/28 that I don't know about.
Hey, if you don't want a Z/28....don't buy one. But for those of us, (and I believe we have quite afew), who will accept no substitite, let us have our car. We're Camaro enthusiasts too, is it so wrong for us to have our car too?
Hey, if you don't want a Z/28....don't buy one. But for those of us, (and I believe we have quite afew), who will accept no substitite, let us have our car. We're Camaro enthusiasts too, is it so wrong for us to have our car too?
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Originally posted by CLEAN
And so, here we are right back at the begining of the thread...with the SS already annointed as the top Camaro for a possible 5th gen...what of the Z28? Should we continue to devalue it by having the SS on top, should we drop it altogether as redundant? My feeling is that SS should (and will be for that matter) the top Camaro strictly from a marketing/public perception point of view. Not only because of recent history (and the general car buying public doesn't factor in the 60's in their car buying decisions), but also to be in line w/ the rest of the Chevrolet lineup.
However, I felt like there would be enough people that would want a 1LE/Z06 type car, that the Z/28 could be made an OPTION which would include a bunch of OFF THE SHELF PARTS from SLP or whoever..which would go a long way in putting on alot of the mods that alot of us had to do ourselves, after the purchase. Lets face it, the 1LE's were never big time sellers, and were NEVER marketed. Only people who were up on their Camaros knew the thing existed, and what it would mean to own one (in terms of ride, options restrictions, ect). IF you had a RPOZ28, you would know you were getting a loud, harder riding, and frankly less user friendly car than you would get w/ an SS...but if that's what you wanted...HERE IT IS! My feeling is that the Z28 option would not sell more than a few hundred, maybe a 1000 a year, but to the people who bought them, they would be a fairly rare ride, w/ lots of good equipment that you couldn't have gotten from the SS.
As far as the hole that the Z28 would leave in the model lineup, all you would have to do is take the 3 Z28 badges off the car, and call it a Camaro 5.7, or a Camaro V-8, or whatever. Kind of like a modern day B4C.
The fact that GM REALLY wants to limit Camaro to 2 engines it seems, and have the SS as the top model, doesn't leave alot of room for Z28 in the lineup. Having it only as an option, likely a very seldomly chosen one at that, would give some substance and viability to the name, not to mention exclusivity. It would fill it's own niche, not be a dumbed down version of the SS, or a base camaro w/ a black roof (in appearance).
And so, here we are right back at the begining of the thread...with the SS already annointed as the top Camaro for a possible 5th gen...what of the Z28? Should we continue to devalue it by having the SS on top, should we drop it altogether as redundant? My feeling is that SS should (and will be for that matter) the top Camaro strictly from a marketing/public perception point of view. Not only because of recent history (and the general car buying public doesn't factor in the 60's in their car buying decisions), but also to be in line w/ the rest of the Chevrolet lineup.
However, I felt like there would be enough people that would want a 1LE/Z06 type car, that the Z/28 could be made an OPTION which would include a bunch of OFF THE SHELF PARTS from SLP or whoever..which would go a long way in putting on alot of the mods that alot of us had to do ourselves, after the purchase. Lets face it, the 1LE's were never big time sellers, and were NEVER marketed. Only people who were up on their Camaros knew the thing existed, and what it would mean to own one (in terms of ride, options restrictions, ect). IF you had a RPOZ28, you would know you were getting a loud, harder riding, and frankly less user friendly car than you would get w/ an SS...but if that's what you wanted...HERE IT IS! My feeling is that the Z28 option would not sell more than a few hundred, maybe a 1000 a year, but to the people who bought them, they would be a fairly rare ride, w/ lots of good equipment that you couldn't have gotten from the SS.
As far as the hole that the Z28 would leave in the model lineup, all you would have to do is take the 3 Z28 badges off the car, and call it a Camaro 5.7, or a Camaro V-8, or whatever. Kind of like a modern day B4C.
The fact that GM REALLY wants to limit Camaro to 2 engines it seems, and have the SS as the top model, doesn't leave alot of room for Z28 in the lineup. Having it only as an option, likely a very seldomly chosen one at that, would give some substance and viability to the name, not to mention exclusivity. It would fill it's own niche, not be a dumbed down version of the SS, or a base camaro w/ a black roof (in appearance).
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by Z284ever
WOW! This post gives me more insight into your opinion than all the others combined.
Z34 was a meaningless name. Your comparing it to the Z/28!?Why?......because it has a Z in it. What about Ozzie Osbourne, or Bazooka Bubblegum...they have Z's in them too.
It's clear to me that you don't have a shread of understanding about the Z/28 mystique. You say that Camaro has a history with the SS name...fair enough. Are you denying the history Camaro has with the Z/28? Are denying that Z/28 captured the heart and soul of multiple generations of Camaro enthusiasts?
If all Z/28 means to you, is the cheapest V8 Camaro....you may want to go back and do your own research. Who knows...you may surprise yourself.
WOW! This post gives me more insight into your opinion than all the others combined.
Z34 was a meaningless name. Your comparing it to the Z/28!?Why?......because it has a Z in it. What about Ozzie Osbourne, or Bazooka Bubblegum...they have Z's in them too.
It's clear to me that you don't have a shread of understanding about the Z/28 mystique. You say that Camaro has a history with the SS name...fair enough. Are you denying the history Camaro has with the Z/28? Are denying that Z/28 captured the heart and soul of multiple generations of Camaro enthusiasts?
If all Z/28 means to you, is the cheapest V8 Camaro....you may want to go back and do your own research. Who knows...you may surprise yourself.
One thing that I'm sure you and me will agree on is that the Z28 should not be a base V6 clone. The Z28 should have had 17in rims on the 4th gen and maybe a different spoiler or grill than the base V6 Camaro.
as far as the 5th gen goes, I don't care if the SS cost more and has 10-15 more HP than the Z28 if they both use the same motor like now. I'll save the 3 grand buy buying the Z28 over the SS and throw on a $600 cat back to make up the extra power. The Z28 does need more respect from GM though, it should have bigger rims than V6 and a different hood or spoiler. How about giving the Z28 a cowl hood while the SS can keep it's ram air, Make both cars look hot, but different. Another way to go might be to make the SS more of a luxuray Camaro and the Z28 can be for the guy who wants to order it without A/C or leather. (kind of like the difference between a Formula and Trans AM now, keep HP the same on both or within 10-15hp)
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by Z284ever
Why is it that some people don't want the Z/28 to be a real Z/28? No one is saying to drop the SS. Is there some sort of underground bias developing against the Z/28 that I don't know about.
Hey, if you don't want a Z/28....don't buy one. But for those of us, (and I believe we have quite afew), who will accept no substitite, let us have our car. We're Camaro enthusiasts too, is it so wrong for us to have our car too?
Why is it that some people don't want the Z/28 to be a real Z/28? No one is saying to drop the SS. Is there some sort of underground bias developing against the Z/28 that I don't know about.
Hey, if you don't want a Z/28....don't buy one. But for those of us, (and I believe we have quite afew), who will accept no substitite, let us have our car. We're Camaro enthusiasts too, is it so wrong for us to have our car too?
out of 35years of Camaros how many years did they make real Z28s
I love the Z28 but I think the sub 200HP Z28s of the 80' tarnished the name a little, plus Z28 is a mass produced hot rod Camaro, not a limited production Z06 type Camaro.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
General Info:
Since we drifted back to the SS vs Z28 debate, and I'm staying out of this, I dug this up regarding 1969 Camaro performance:
Performance:
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 7.4 sec, 1/4 mile in 15.12 sec @ 94.8mph.
(SS396) 396/375bhp: 0-60 in 6.8 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.7 sec @ 98.7mph.
(COPO 9561) 427/425bhp: 0-60 in 5.4 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec @ 102mph.
(COPO 9560) 427/430bhp: 0-60 in 5.3 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.16 sec @ 110 mph.
1970
Performance: (Z-28) 350/360bhp: 0-60 in 6.1 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.4 sec @ 99.1mph.
(SS396) 402/300bhp: n/a
Safe to say after 1970, SSs were slower than Z28s, though before that, not so sure.
Since we drifted back to the SS vs Z28 debate, and I'm staying out of this, I dug this up regarding 1969 Camaro performance:
Performance:
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 7.4 sec, 1/4 mile in 15.12 sec @ 94.8mph.
(SS396) 396/375bhp: 0-60 in 6.8 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.7 sec @ 98.7mph.
(COPO 9561) 427/425bhp: 0-60 in 5.4 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec @ 102mph.
(COPO 9560) 427/430bhp: 0-60 in 5.3 sec, 1/4 mile in 13.16 sec @ 110 mph.
1970
Performance: (Z-28) 350/360bhp: 0-60 in 6.1 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.4 sec @ 99.1mph.
(SS396) 402/300bhp: n/a
Safe to say after 1970, SSs were slower than Z28s, though before that, not so sure.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
I think the point here which most people are failing to grasp is the original Z/28 (pre-1970) was conceived and built for the sole reason to compete in Trans Am. Had the regulations at the time allowed for 350 ci rather than 305 max, the Z/28 would've had a 350. 1/4 mi and straightline performance aside the first gen Z/28s were far superior to their SS brethern where it really counts, in the twisties.
So in terms or relative performance it all really depends on your perspective.
However, just in case "anyone" is reading this that actually has a say in the matter, just stick a big block in the SS and settle all the arguments for us.
So in terms or relative performance it all really depends on your perspective.
However, just in case "anyone" is reading this that actually has a say in the matter, just stick a big block in the SS and settle all the arguments for us.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Originally posted by jg95z28
I think the point here which most people are failing to grasp is the original Z/28 (pre-1970) was conceived and built for the sole reason to compete in Trans Am. Had the regulations at the time allowed for 350 ci rather than 305 max, the Z/28 would've had a 350. 1/4 mi and straightline performance aside the first gen Z/28s were far superior to their SS brethern where it really counts, in the twisties.
So in terms or relative performance it all really depends on your perspective.
I think the point here which most people are failing to grasp is the original Z/28 (pre-1970) was conceived and built for the sole reason to compete in Trans Am. Had the regulations at the time allowed for 350 ci rather than 305 max, the Z/28 would've had a 350. 1/4 mi and straightline performance aside the first gen Z/28s were far superior to their SS brethern where it really counts, in the twisties.
So in terms or relative performance it all really depends on your perspective.
The modern emphasis on handling has changed the way enthusiasts look back on cars like the Z/28 and Boss 302.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Z28x
I love the Z28 but I think the sub 200HP Z28s of the 80' tarnished the name a little, plus Z28 is a mass produced hot rod Camaro, not a limited production Z06 type Camaro.
I love the Z28 but I think the sub 200HP Z28s of the 80' tarnished the name a little, plus Z28 is a mass produced hot rod Camaro, not a limited production Z06 type Camaro.
The Z06 BTW, makes up about a quarter of Corvette sales, so I'd hardly call it limited production. I can see a Z06 style Z/28, carve out a similar market share for Camaro. With the Camaro SS back, that means Z/28 is more free to return to it's roots...it no longer needs to be all things to all enthusiasts.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Found these:
1967:
Camaro Z28 302/290HP - 0-60: 6.7Sec. 1/4 Mile: 13.75@105MPH
Camaro SS 396/325HP - 0-60: 6.0Sec. 1/4 Mile: 14.50@99MPH
1968:
Camaro Z28 302/290HP - 0-60: 5.5Sec. 1/4 Mile: 13.75@107MPH
Camaro SS 396/325HP - 0-60: 6.6Sec. 1/4 Mile: 15.00@94MPH
People don't mind the IROC-Z name because it means IROC-Z28. It didn't take a designation from years ago that meant something else and misplace it. The Z28 was the car to look out for on the streets back in the day, ask some1 who was there. The guys with BBC's and M*stangs knew to look out for them. And the Z28's in the 70's and 80's could be considered real Z28's in a sense that they were still the Camaro model that performed good in ALL areas above the other models, not just 1 thing like the SS did, or, was supposed to do.
1967:
Camaro Z28 302/290HP - 0-60: 6.7Sec. 1/4 Mile: 13.75@105MPH
Camaro SS 396/325HP - 0-60: 6.0Sec. 1/4 Mile: 14.50@99MPH
1968:
Camaro Z28 302/290HP - 0-60: 5.5Sec. 1/4 Mile: 13.75@107MPH
Camaro SS 396/325HP - 0-60: 6.6Sec. 1/4 Mile: 15.00@94MPH
People don't mind the IROC-Z name because it means IROC-Z28. It didn't take a designation from years ago that meant something else and misplace it. The Z28 was the car to look out for on the streets back in the day, ask some1 who was there. The guys with BBC's and M*stangs knew to look out for them. And the Z28's in the 70's and 80's could be considered real Z28's in a sense that they were still the Camaro model that performed good in ALL areas above the other models, not just 1 thing like the SS did, or, was supposed to do.
Last edited by IZ28; Feb 18, 2003 at 07:23 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
There are tons of road tests out there. Every now and then you come across an "outlyer"...a car out of the norm, either faster or slower than what you expect.
I think I've seen most all the Camaro road tests....and this is how I think they average.
302 Z/28....high 14's
350 Z/28....low to mid 14's
SS350........mid 15's
SS396 (325hp)...low 15's
SS396 (375 hp)...mid to high 14's
I think I've seen most all the Camaro road tests....and this is how I think they average.
302 Z/28....high 14's
350 Z/28....low to mid 14's
SS350........mid 15's
SS396 (325hp)...low 15's
SS396 (375 hp)...mid to high 14's
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Right on Z284ever. If a magazine got a 13 from a
67-69 they had slicks, open exhaust, 4.11s, re-jetted carb ect. Or Chevy gave them warmed over one and didn't tell them. I believe that happended quite a bit.
67-69 they had slicks, open exhaust, 4.11s, re-jetted carb ect. Or Chevy gave them warmed over one and didn't tell them. I believe that happended quite a bit.