CLEAN

Maybe it's time to revisit an old argument...what shoud the Camaro lineup be? All this talk of engines options, and what could be done vs what's too expensive..and on and on. What about this possibility...Why does the Z/28 and SS have to be the exclusive homes of the V8's? Why not do a Camaro w/ v-6 and v-8 and have SS and Z/28 be appearance/performance options? I give you 2 arguments.....

1. SN95 Mustang..the early years. The base and GT cars were indistinguishable save for the wheels, exhaust pipes, and spoiler. The Cobra was the Hi-po model w/ different wheels, hood, facia, and hardware.

2. 4th gen Pontiac Firebird. no less than 5 models..Firebird, Formula, T/A, WS-6, Firehawk.

Using these examples, what if the Camaro lineup looked like this..... The base car would be available just as the 4th gen was in regards to options, coupe-convertible, ect....but w/ one major difference...it would have the V-8 option..the real V8...LS1 in '02 terms (think 4th gen Firebird/Formula for this one). So you could get it all in one car (like CTS, or the Lincoln LS). Now then, the SS and Z/28 would be OPTIONS, not models. Using '02 parts and capabilities as a reference, the SS could be just as it was..differentiated from the "Camaro V-8" by hood, spoiler, wheel/tire package, cat back, ect...but maybe w/ the SLP lid, and other goodies to bump the power a little more. The Z/28 option would be a low cost, low frills car (as low frills as you can get anymore) along the lines of the Z06. For this model, you could say it would start out as the "Camaro V-8"...maybe cloth only interior (you'll probably be stuck w/ all the power accessories, sorry), coupe only. Then SLP would fit it much the same way as the SS, but w/ more intense upgrades in suspension, Subframes, Chambered exhause, the RS stripe package, and maybe that different hood they have w/ the forced induction at the front. So here you go....

Base Model V-6 or V-8....think CTS/CTS-V....both great cars, highly contented.

SS-exactly as it is now, obviously V8, but w/ some eye candy and maybe some upgrades like GPS Nav, better seats, tasteful striping around the scoop (like the SEMA car). The "cruiser" for those who want to be seen.

Z/28-Camaro....Z/06 style..not a particulary pleasant place to be, but w/ GOOD factory installed suspension, exhaust, gears?, brakes even. A showroom ready race car (think Firehawk on this one)

There, 2 engines, 4 models. Incidently, Mustang does much the same thing w/ their base/GT models being basically clones (minus the new style wheels and non functioning scoops ) Mach 1 to stand out, and the Cobra to just kick most everythings a**.

Point is, do you guys want to see the Z/28-SS be THE V-8 Camaros, or do you want them to be OPTIONS on the V-8 Camaros (just like in 1967!). I can't remember how this question was answered before, but I'd be curious to know.

jg95z28

I can kind of agree with that line of thinking... although why not have a different, nee smaller V8 for the base model just like the first gen? The orig. 327 was the base V8 and could be ordered with the RS trim option. There were as many as 3-4 different engine configurations for the SS, and only one "special-race" set-up for the Z/28.

Enter Generation 5.... you have two base models

LS - V6
RS - 4.8 V8 (or 5.3?)

As you said, for performance minded cruiser "SS" the next-gen version of the LS1 (6.0L?)...

For the Z/28... next-gen LS6, or some other more exotic powerplant.

Kind of like how Ford had the SOHC 4.6 and the DOHC 4.6 for the Cobra.

What about a factory-supercharger like the Cobra? Not sure about that one. While I love the idea I'm not sure price point model it should be in.

I am in the camp that feels the Z/28 should be a high hp, stripper model with a hot suspension/road-race set-up... yet keeping all the add-on power/gadget goodies to a minimum. Yes, I want something in the neighborhood of 400 rwhp and a six speed. But after that, as long as it handles the twisties and hooks up well... you can keep all the extra fluff on the "SS".

CLEAN

Your idea about a 4.8 or 5.3 would be fine w/ me, but I was just taking into account the concerns of the "industry insiders" who say that a 3rd engine is too difficult to pull off in this particular car, although I'm sure they'd love to offer a slew of engines if they could. Assuming you'd only have 2 engines to work w/, the extra power would have to come from bolt ons and such from an SLP type company, kind of like what they offered w/ their 345hp package.....a lid, exhaust, maf maybe. Just enough to market the difference and "superiority" of the SS and Z .

jg95z28

If that's the case, then just put Displacement-On-Demand on the base models and turn it off on the hotter "SS" and Z/28 models.

Z284ever

It doesn't really matter to me if the Z/28 is an optional performance package, or it's own Camaro model. As long as it delivers the goods, with the good parts, performance ,look, respect for lineage...and has a Z/28 emblem on it.

But I also believe strongly that the Camaro will require an intermediate V8....either optional on the base coupe, or packaged in it's own model.

In one of his posts, RP promised class leading power in a "theoretical" new Camaro, so here goes........



Base Mustang, 250hp..............Base Camaro 251hp.

Mustang GT, 300hp..............RS (or whatever), 301hp

Mustang Mach1, 350hp.........Camaro SS, 351hp.

Mustang Cobra, 400+hp..........Camaro Z/28, 401+hp.


That's four engines.

HAZ-Matt

I couldn't help but notice you got the SS and Z28 switched, so I fixed it for you

SNEAKY NEIL

Nah, it was right the first time.

IZ28

It was right the 1st time.

Z28

Z284ever

While we're on the subject of SS...where does it really fit in to the line up.

The consensus by everyone here is that the Z/28, needs to be a Z06 style car....that is something I wholeheartedly agree with.

But what of the SS. Traditionally, SS packages were trim packages, which could be ordered on even six cylinder base model Chevys....with the option for more performance.


I know what the Z/28 should be.

I know that the SS should have it's own identity, without cannabalising the Z/28's features in order to exist.

To tell you the truth...I really don't have a crystal clear picture of what a future Camaro SS needs to be. Is it needed at all?


Should it be the loaded luxocruiser, with auto and convertible?

Should it be what it has traditionally always been ...a sporty trim package, with the availability of some performance options?

Someone help me out here. Ford's got it's Mustang model identity nailed. What are we missing?

IZ28

Its really simple, the SS is not needed if there is limited models for the 1st few years because of cost. BUT, the SS could fit into the line as a more luxury-type Camaro. With the way the M*****g is going, we need a Z06 kind of Camaro not a 10HP overpriced upgrade, and the only designation that corresponds to that and makes sense is the Z28.

Base - V6
RS - S/Ced V6?? 4.8 V8??
SS - 5.7
Z28 - 6.0 (And yes it should be available with an Auto, and this would be the no compromise in suspension high G car too)

Z284ever

Maybe the SS Camaro should return to it's roots.

Maybe it should be a car that can be ordered in multiple ways. From a basic car with sporty trim and sport suspension ( as opposed to a more focused semi-race type suspension for Z/28)....all the way up to a muscular GT with many available luxury options.

Camaro will have to cover an awful lot of bases...if it hopes to approach the sales success of Mustang (current and future).

An SS...with greater deference for it's true roots.... could actually make up the bulk of Camaro sales in such a configuration....with multiple drivetrains.

Any thoughts?

IZ28

I don't see the purpose of SS on a deliberate sporty car like the Camaro, but it does have a place in Camaro history and I think it would be a really good high volume V8 car, and SS is gonna be used on alot of top model Chevy's. The Z28 would obviously be the lower production top Special Performance model.

Z284ever

I'd really like to hear from some of the SS guys on this.

The Z/28 guys have essentially defined what role the Z/28 should play in a future Camaro line up.....where could the SS fit in?

Darth Xed

Maybe they should offer the same exact car with the buyer's choice of "Z28" or "SS" badges...

Z284ever

Ha! That's not what I had in mind...but it's a funny thought.

If you were an OEM supplier...which emblem contract would you go for?