6th gen Camaro wish list.
02-18-2008, 03:35 PM
#46
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It would be incredulous to imagine GM not forecasting it's product line 3, 4, 5, 10 years in the future.
Unless something unforeseen happens, the fact of the matter is, that the 5th gen will certainly be CAFE negative for GM, if not now, then in the very near future. Add the fact that afew hundred thousand of it's platform mates will no longer be sharing costs with it....and I'm sure people are brainstorming this right now.
02-18-2008, 03:35 PM
#47
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True the Stang does get a bit heavy as the power levels and price go up. I for one and I would think many more would be content with Camaro weights matching the Mustang's. I would think in 2010 that would be reasonable. Would you not agree, from a weight perspective only?
02-18-2008, 04:06 PM
#48
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1. We have a poor basis in known facts for criticizing the 5gen, much less the 6gen.
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level'. I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs in the Camaro, for overall success. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, IMO. Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen is too heavy, and the 6gen must be lighter than that? (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... not enough answers.
02-18-2008, 04:57 PM
#49
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True the Stang does get a bit heavy as the power levels and price go up. I for one and I would think many more would be content with Camaro weights matching the Mustang's. I would think in 2010 that would be reasonable. Would you not agree, from a weight perspective only?
The base and GT have reasonable weight. But when you are getting to two tons or over, that's simply ridiculous and for me totally unacceptable, especially for a "ponycar".
02-18-2008, 05:04 PM
#50
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Everyone has a right to criticize. But I have three issues with some of the critiques I see on this board:
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for criticizing the 5gen, much less the 6gen.
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level'. I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs in the Camaro, for overall success. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, IMO. Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen is too heavy, and the 6gen must be lighter than that? (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... not enough answers.
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for criticizing the 5gen, much less the 6gen.
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level'. I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs in the Camaro, for overall success. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, IMO. Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen is too heavy, and the 6gen must be lighter than that? (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... not enough answers.
Everyone has a right to criticize so long as it doesn't pertain to something I like. But I have three issues with some of the critiques I see on this board:
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for praising the 5gen, much less the 6gen.
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level' but since this one appears to be perfect for me I'll try to rebut every opinion I don't share. I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs of the characteristics that others desire in the Camaro, for overall success of the car that I want. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, like I'm doing right now with my own often repeated criticisms. Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen isn't too heavy, and the 6gen shouldn't be lighter than that? (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... and not enough people that agree with me in this thread.
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for praising the 5gen, much less the 6gen.
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level' but since this one appears to be perfect for me I'll try to rebut every opinion I don't share. I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs of the characteristics that others desire in the Camaro, for overall success of the car that I want. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, like I'm doing right now with my own often repeated criticisms. Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen isn't too heavy, and the 6gen shouldn't be lighter than that? (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... and not enough people that agree with me in this thread.
Relax big guy... just having some fun with how I perceive many of your posts....
Last edited by Chewbacca; 02-18-2008 at 05:18 PM.
02-18-2008, 06:11 PM
#52
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As I said under the 5th Gen General Discussion, if GM isn't already contemplating a possible 6th Gen scenario, they're going to have to start real soon....that is, if we aren't going to get another "hiatus".
By the way, that isn't me being negative....I'm sure Ford began preliminary work on the 2010 Mustang the moment the first all-new 2005 cars hit the streets. And back then, they weren't staring a huge CAFE increase straight in the eyes either.
By the way, that isn't me being negative....I'm sure Ford began preliminary work on the 2010 Mustang the moment the first all-new 2005 cars hit the streets. And back then, they weren't staring a huge CAFE increase straight in the eyes either.
02-18-2008, 06:22 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by TheWordTwister
Everyone has a right to criticize so long as it doesn't pertain to something I like. (actually people truly do have that right here, it doesn't and shouldn't matter what I like) But I have three issues with some of the critiques I see on this board:
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for praising the 5gen, much less the 6gen. There are undoubtedly some known facts about the new Camaro. For example, the pictures released by GM. If that doesn't merit praise... well I don't know what else to say
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level' but since this one appears to be perfect for me I'll try to rebut every opinion I don't share. (Better yet, instead of trying to rebut, I will just point out the absurdities of some of the more ill-based comments being made. And BTW, is it some kind of crime if I think the new Camaro is perfect for me?) I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs of the characteristics that others (all SIXTEEN of them) desire in the Camaro, for overall success of the car that I want. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, like I'm doing right now with my own often repeated criticisms. (After all, it's a two-way street. Don't expect me to be silent while the gang of sixteen sing their choir) Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen isn't too heavy, and the 6gen shouldn't be lighter than that? (Who else wants to twist a perfectly good sentence into incomprehensible goo?) (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... and not enough people that agree with me in this thread. (This clumsy attempt to turn the attention away from the multitude of unanswered, unanswerable questions, to making it something about me instead, is lame indeed.)
1. We have a poor basis in known facts for praising the 5gen, much less the 6gen. There are undoubtedly some known facts about the new Camaro. For example, the pictures released by GM. If that doesn't merit praise... well I don't know what else to say
2. I don't expect the car to be perfect on 'every level' but since this one appears to be perfect for me I'll try to rebut every opinion I don't share. (Better yet, instead of trying to rebut, I will just point out the absurdities of some of the more ill-based comments being made. And BTW, is it some kind of crime if I think the new Camaro is perfect for me?) I'm realistic, and will gladly accept certain tradeoffs of the characteristics that others (all SIXTEEN of them) desire in the Camaro, for overall success of the car that I want. Eg, having a hefty Camaro that also offers full features, plenty of interior room for four, and great crashworthiness.
3. Once criticisms are posted, they don't need to be repeated ad infinitum, like I'm doing right now with my own often repeated criticisms. (After all, it's a two-way street. Don't expect me to be silent while the gang of sixteen sing their choir) Not in the original threads, and not in 'extrapolated' threads like this one.
Who says the 5gen isn't too heavy, and the 6gen shouldn't be lighter than that? (Who else wants to twist a perfectly good sentence into incomprehensible goo?) (Heck who even knows what the 5gen weighs?). Who says the 6gen has to be 'CAFE positive', or that the new CAFE as we know it will even exist, when the 6gen is released, in a year we do not know yet? Too many questions... and not enough people that agree with me in this thread. (This clumsy attempt to turn the attention away from the multitude of unanswered, unanswerable questions, to making it something about me instead, is lame indeed.)
02-18-2008, 06:28 PM
#54
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Spy pics are what they are. They give you a good feel about the direction the car is headed in, styling wise. I'm not sure why it's "ok" to heap praise based on spy pics and not ok to critique/criticize, but all right then....
Continuing with your regularly scheduled thread topic:
If Alpha is the future of Camaro (well, beyond the 5th Gen anyway), I would surely hope a smaller displacement V8 will be an option. Perhaps it's limited production to not infringe on CAFE too much, perhaps you just say screw it and pass the penalties on to the consumer.....but I would certainly hope the V8 "DNA" that Scott has always alluded to will remain intact.
02-18-2008, 07:02 PM
#55
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Spy pics are what they are. They give you a good feel about the direction the car is headed in, styling wise. I'm not sure why it's "ok" to heap praise based on spy pics and not ok to critique/criticize, but all right then....
Continuing with your regularly scheduled thread topic:
If Alpha is the future of Camaro (well, beyond the 5th Gen anyway), I would surely hope a smaller displacement V8 will be an option. Perhaps it's limited production to not infringe on CAFE too much, perhaps you just say screw it and pass the penalties on to the consumer.....but I would certainly hope the V8 "DNA" that Scott has always alluded to will remain intact.
If Alpha is the future of Camaro (well, beyond the 5th Gen anyway), I would surely hope a smaller displacement V8 will be an option. Perhaps it's limited production to not infringe on CAFE too much, perhaps you just say screw it and pass the penalties on to the consumer.....but I would certainly hope the V8 "DNA" that Scott has always alluded to will remain intact.
Last edited by BigDarknFast; 02-19-2008 at 07:43 AM.
02-18-2008, 07:05 PM
#56
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I see you're still sensitive to "pushback" on your own "pushback". Fine, I'll stop before this goes 30 pages. You're more than smart enough to know I wasn't simply twisting your words and I'm sure you recognized every point I made. If not... google glass houses and stones.
Fortunately there is no reason for me to go round and round with you on this again because, as Wilson's post shows, others will make the very same points.
I now return you to our first full blown 6th gen argument / discussion.
Fortunately there is no reason for me to go round and round with you on this again because, as Wilson's post shows, others will make the very same points.
I now return you to our first full blown 6th gen argument / discussion.
02-18-2008, 08:04 PM
#57
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If Alpha is the future of Camaro (well, beyond the 5th Gen anyway), I would surely hope a smaller displacement V8 will be an option. Perhaps it's limited production to not infringe on CAFE too much, perhaps you just say screw it and pass the penalties on to the consumer.....but I would certainly hope the V8 "DNA" that Scott has always alluded to will remain intact.
As far as displacement goes, if they would re-engineer Alpha to accept a smallblock, I say what the hell, give me the whole 6.2 liters. I can imagine the V8 model being relatively low volume, and it will probably take a CAFE hit anyway, so might as well go for it, IMHO. Afterall, there would be other Camaro powertrain combos which could allow for 10,- 20,000 V8 Camaros.
02-18-2008, 09:04 PM
#58
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An Alpha Camaro would be almost as good as an Alpha Firebird 
I disagree pretty strongly about the notion that a 4 cylinder should not be in the lineup of engines for this theoretical Camaro especially considering that the four-bangers now and 5-10 years from now are more powerful than some of the V8s of yesteryear that graced the engine bays of the Fbody ancestors. Some turbocharged engines would also make things quite interesting performance wise.
I do hope there will be a way to get some sort of V8 in there. The fuel economy won't be too horrid if the weight is acceptable.
I disagree pretty strongly about the notion that a 4 cylinder should not be in the lineup of engines for this theoretical Camaro especially considering that the four-bangers now and 5-10 years from now are more powerful than some of the V8s of yesteryear that graced the engine bays of the Fbody ancestors. Some turbocharged engines would also make things quite interesting performance wise.
I do hope there will be a way to get some sort of V8 in there. The fuel economy won't be too horrid if the weight is acceptable.
02-18-2008, 09:12 PM
#59
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I think people like us, in forums like these, need to start laying down groundwork like that - right now. I think more time has passed during this "hiatus," than will pass before it's time for a 6th gen.
As far as displacement goes, if they would re-engineer Alpha to accept a smallblock, I say what the hell, give me the whole 6.2 liters. I can imagine the V8 model being relatively low volume, and it will probably take a CAFE hit anyway, so might as well go for it, IMHO. Afterall, there would be other Camaro powertrain combos which could allow for 10,- 20,000 V8 Camaros.
As far as displacement goes, if they would re-engineer Alpha to accept a smallblock, I say what the hell, give me the whole 6.2 liters. I can imagine the V8 model being relatively low volume, and it will probably take a CAFE hit anyway, so might as well go for it, IMHO. Afterall, there would be other Camaro powertrain combos which could allow for 10,- 20,000 V8 Camaros.
02-18-2008, 09:32 PM
#60
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I have no problem with a an eco-tec being offered in a possible 6th gen Camaro. What would effectively make the car dead to me would be a Eclipse sized car with nothing greater than a v-6, no matter how great the performance. The Camaro is not ONLY about performance, it is also about the heritage of a rumbling V-8.