5th gen intermediate V8.
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by IZ28
Of course not, the top models almost never do. But they are still the ones that everyone wants or would like to have if they could. The car being a hardtop should make it lighter and stronger, which is perfect for building the high performance version off of.
Of course not, the top models almost never do. But they are still the ones that everyone wants or would like to have if they could. The car being a hardtop should make it lighter and stronger, which is perfect for building the high performance version off of.
Since a loaded LS1 coupe is about equal in price to a Z06, and they sell more LS1 coupes than Z06's... I'd say that the Coupe is "more popular" than the Z06 to those that really matter.... the actual buyers.
If you are plunking down that much cash, you are going to buy what you want... more people choose the Coupe... so how does that make the Z06 the "one that people whould buy if they could"?
Last edited by Darth Xed; Jan 27, 2004 at 01:54 PM.
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From: Ohio
Even the most expensive convertible has outsold the cheaper Z06 in every year of production...
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2001prod.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2002prod.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2003prod.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2001prod.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2002prod.html
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/.../2003prod.html
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
Ya, but don't forget that that Z06 package includes the hardtop body style that was meant to be the inexpensive Corvette... you also don't get near the 'do-dad' items you can get on a regular Corvette if you option it up to a price similar to a Z06... so, you lose a lot too....
Ya, but don't forget that that Z06 package includes the hardtop body style that was meant to be the inexpensive Corvette... you also don't get near the 'do-dad' items you can get on a regular Corvette if you option it up to a price similar to a Z06... so, you lose a lot too....
Whether Z06 is available with all convenience features or not.....it's LS6 comes bundled in a package that consists of mechanical upgrades. Mechanical upgrades that cost more.
The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps not too effectively), is even if a mid-range V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE.....NOT THE CAR), cost roughly the same to manufacture as a high perf V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE....NOT THE CAR)......the Camaro it comes in, won't.
So, even if a 400 hp LS2 costs exactly the same as a 300hp, LS4, 5.3 to manufacture......the Camaro that has the 5.3 will cost less than the LS2 Camaro.....and appeal to a different group of buyer.
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What I'm trying to say is that regardless it's still the most desirable and will always draw the most money. When you hear Z06 you know what you're dealing with no matter what options it doesn't have, it more than makes up for it.
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From: Detroit
Originally posted by Eric77TA
No kidding! In 1969 there were: 230 6 cylinder, 250 6 cylinder, 302 V8 (Z/28), 307 V8, 327 V8, 350 V8, 396 V8 and two COPO 427s and most of those 8s came in at least two or three states of tune. Talk about choices!
No kidding! In 1969 there were: 230 6 cylinder, 250 6 cylinder, 302 V8 (Z/28), 307 V8, 327 V8, 350 V8, 396 V8 and two COPO 427s and most of those 8s came in at least two or three states of tune. Talk about choices!
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by Z284ever
I'm not sure that's really relevant to the point I'm trying to make.
Whether Z06 is available with all convenience features or not.....it's LS6 comes bundled in a package that consists of mechanical upgrades. Mechanical upgrades that cost more.
The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps not too effectively), is even if a mid-range V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE.....NOT THE CAR), cost roughly the same to manufacture as a high perf V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE....NOT THE CAR)......the Camaro it comes in, won't.
So, even if a 400 hp LS2 costs exactly the same as a 300hp, LS4, 5.3 to manufacture......the Camaro that has the 5.3 will cost less than the LS2 Camaro.....and appeal to a different group of buyer.
I'm not sure that's really relevant to the point I'm trying to make.
Whether Z06 is available with all convenience features or not.....it's LS6 comes bundled in a package that consists of mechanical upgrades. Mechanical upgrades that cost more.
The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps not too effectively), is even if a mid-range V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE.....NOT THE CAR), cost roughly the same to manufacture as a high perf V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE....NOT THE CAR)......the Camaro it comes in, won't.
So, even if a 400 hp LS2 costs exactly the same as a 300hp, LS4, 5.3 to manufacture......the Camaro that has the 5.3 will cost less than the LS2 Camaro.....and appeal to a different group of buyer.
I agree with all of this.
And I am all for it, under one condition:
The price of the hi-po V8 is not inflated higher than what it would be if the "lo-po" V8 was not offered.
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by IZ28
What I'm trying to say is that regardless it's still the most desirable and will always draw the most money. When you hear Z06 you know what you're dealing with no matter what options it doesn't have, it more than makes up for it.
What I'm trying to say is that regardless it's still the most desirable and will always draw the most money. When you hear Z06 you know what you're dealing with no matter what options it doesn't have, it more than makes up for it.
I don't understand what you are looking at.
1) Z06 does NOT draw the most money, the convertible does.
2) If it were the most "desirable" to the majority of people, it would sell in a greater percentage, considering the convertible COSTS more, and the coupe can equal it in price.
Personally, the Z06 IS the most desirable... to me... and you... but obviosuly not to the majority of new Corvette buyers.
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When I say that it draws more money, I mean that it will draw more money than the other Corvettes as it ages. The convertible is still just a regular C5 with no roof. The Z06 is, well we all know what it is. That's the car that makes the Corvette what it really is. It doesn't sell as much because of the type of car it is and it's price. It's still the best Corvette available and offers straight performance. Convertables are really overrated IMO and only cost alot because of production. IROC-Z convertables don't sell for more now than L98 IROC T-Tops cars even though it was reversed when new and they are still not nearly as desirable. Same goes for 1st Gen convertables against Z28's which still draw the most money of the all-factory built 1sts. Even if the top cars sell less, (because of various reasons) they're still the coolest.
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From: Hou,TX
Originally posted by Z284ever
I'm not sure that's really relevant to the point I'm trying to make.
Whether Z06 is available with all convenience features or not.....it's LS6 comes bundled in a package that consists of mechanical upgrades. Mechanical upgrades that cost more.
The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps not too effectively), is even if a mid-range V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE.....NOT THE CAR), cost roughly the same to manufacture as a high perf V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE....NOT THE CAR)......the Camaro it comes in, won't.
So, even if a 400 hp LS2 costs exactly the same as a 300hp, LS4, 5.3 to manufacture......the Camaro that has the 5.3 will cost less than the LS2 Camaro.....and appeal to a different group of buyer.
I'm not sure that's really relevant to the point I'm trying to make.
Whether Z06 is available with all convenience features or not.....it's LS6 comes bundled in a package that consists of mechanical upgrades. Mechanical upgrades that cost more.
The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps not too effectively), is even if a mid-range V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE.....NOT THE CAR), cost roughly the same to manufacture as a high perf V8 (THE COST OF THE ENGINE....NOT THE CAR)......the Camaro it comes in, won't.
So, even if a 400 hp LS2 costs exactly the same as a 300hp, LS4, 5.3 to manufacture......the Camaro that has the 5.3 will cost less than the LS2 Camaro.....and appeal to a different group of buyer.
Exactly.
Just to make it clear. Let's name a few a components that have to be upgraded in the jump between 300 and 400hp
tranny - HD T-56
rearend - HD 8.5 10 bolt
brakes
suspension
cooling system
maybe fuel delivery system (pump,lines)
It all can add up to 5K+ pretty quickly.
Last edited by hp_nut; Jan 27, 2004 at 04:16 PM.
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From: Sarasota FL
Here's a novel idea...
Why not just make those "HD" parts the same across the V8 lineup? This worked in 3rd gen land just fine...a 305 TBI 700R4 is the same as a 350 TPI 700R4...and in cetain years, the difference was up to 75hp.
Sure, give the 6 slightly milder tranny and rear end internals. Here is what I think SHOULD happen...
You add $995 for the V8 over a 3.9L. Then work into this price another $700 cost for a T-56 versus a T-45 (or a worked AT), and various beefier rear end internals. If GM does this on a mass scale, I bet I may not be far off...For those of you who question my price basis, consider this. For $795 over a base 4.3 Vortec Silverado, you can get the 4.8. The 4.8 costs no more to make than a 5.3. And a 4.3 probably doesn't cost much less than a proposed 3.9. So I figure I am safe here...
So for $1,700, we go from a 220hp V6 to a 295hp 5.3 V8. Using '02 F body numbers, that would take a nice base Firebird with chrome wheels, t-tops, all power, cloth and a manual tranny from $22,500 to $24,200, or about the same price as today's '04 base GT2 Grand Prix.
Co-incidentally, this works out to the same price difference as a '92 Camaro 305 TBI and a '92 Lumina Euro...and in '92, 39,000 of the 70,000 Camaros built were, you guessed it, 305 TBIs...
History can, and should, repeat itself. So where do I sign up??
I only bought a Z28 because I HAD TO HAVE AN 8. I DID NOT WANT A 6. I have floored my Z probably 10-15 times in over three years of ownership. All out muscle is not that important to me. But I also don't want a "pansy" V6 muscle car. Throw a blower on it? It still is a pansy 6 banger 
We are talking American muscle here, right? No intermediate 6...give us the 8. Many out there are just like me....
Why not just make those "HD" parts the same across the V8 lineup? This worked in 3rd gen land just fine...a 305 TBI 700R4 is the same as a 350 TPI 700R4...and in cetain years, the difference was up to 75hp.
Sure, give the 6 slightly milder tranny and rear end internals. Here is what I think SHOULD happen...
You add $995 for the V8 over a 3.9L. Then work into this price another $700 cost for a T-56 versus a T-45 (or a worked AT), and various beefier rear end internals. If GM does this on a mass scale, I bet I may not be far off...For those of you who question my price basis, consider this. For $795 over a base 4.3 Vortec Silverado, you can get the 4.8. The 4.8 costs no more to make than a 5.3. And a 4.3 probably doesn't cost much less than a proposed 3.9. So I figure I am safe here...
So for $1,700, we go from a 220hp V6 to a 295hp 5.3 V8. Using '02 F body numbers, that would take a nice base Firebird with chrome wheels, t-tops, all power, cloth and a manual tranny from $22,500 to $24,200, or about the same price as today's '04 base GT2 Grand Prix.
Co-incidentally, this works out to the same price difference as a '92 Camaro 305 TBI and a '92 Lumina Euro...and in '92, 39,000 of the 70,000 Camaros built were, you guessed it, 305 TBIs...
History can, and should, repeat itself. So where do I sign up??
I only bought a Z28 because I HAD TO HAVE AN 8. I DID NOT WANT A 6. I have floored my Z probably 10-15 times in over three years of ownership. All out muscle is not that important to me. But I also don't want a "pansy" V6 muscle car. Throw a blower on it? It still is a pansy 6 banger We are talking American muscle here, right? No intermediate 6...give us the 8. Many out there are just like me....
Last edited by Jason E; Jan 27, 2004 at 04:42 PM.
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GM is using variable valve timing and three valve heads to boost the 3.9L from 240 HP to 270HP.
I would expect the same treatment to the 6.0L and even 5.3L at some point...since the C6 doesn't use any of those technologies yet.
I would expect the same treatment to the 6.0L and even 5.3L at some point...since the C6 doesn't use any of those technologies yet.
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From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
And I am all for it, under one condition:
The price of the hi-po V8 is not inflated higher than what it would be if the "lo-po" V8 was not offered.
And I am all for it, under one condition:
The price of the hi-po V8 is not inflated higher than what it would be if the "lo-po" V8 was not offered.
But....
I am willing to pay more for a 400 hp Camaro than a 300 hp one.....even if their engines are in the same ballpark as far as manufacturing cost goes. On the 400hp version however, I'd want more for my money than just
100 more horsepower. I'd want a more comprehensive performance package to go with it........wheels/tires/brakes/suspension/maybe seats.....and three nice emblems.
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
Originally posted by Z284ever
But I wonder......
We've been using the figure "300hp" to describe the mid-level engine. Is 300hp enough?
But I wonder......
We've been using the figure "300hp" to describe the mid-level engine. Is 300hp enough?