Just humor me for a second. Here are two pictures of 3rd Gen IROCs. Great looking cars! One is an '88 and one is a '90.

http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/gm/8587iz.jpg

http://www.fedrelandsvennen.no/tema/...o/90camaro.jpg

Granted the '90 is a convertible but I think you get the point. It's the same car right down to the black hood louvers and wheels. I'm just trying to make the point that from year to year, very few changes are made to GM's cars. It has been like that for as long as I can remember. It should be no surprise that the 4th Gens got very few, if any, changes each year during their lives.

 

Sure, but you know that they are IROCs....no one will confuse them for base V6 cars.

 

BTW, the convertible listed as a '90 looks like an '87, and the'88 T-Top is an '85.

Not your fault...Chevy got the '90 wrong in their 2002 catalog.

 

1st picture is an 85-87 IROC,as to which year it's hard to tell from the pic. The 2nd pic is an '87 since it was the 1st year for the 3rdgen conv and the wheels which were only on '85-87 IROCS. One other thing,the IROC decals were on the front part of the doors on '85-87 IROCS,on the back part for '88-90.And the whole point what we're talking about was telling apart high/low models not year to year changes.

 

the 4th gen a Z28..sure it is..as far as things go..Z28 back in the day way the top dog..and the SS was lower in the order..not some beancounters fault to bring back the SS as the ulimate Camaro..and by the by..the 4th gen SS is a Z28 optioned with the "SS" package..if everyone wants to get technical..
but hey I know my car is a Z28..as do alot of people consider it a Z28..

look at Mustang..can you tell them apart from 1/4 mile away?? on any?? same thing..nope..or for that fact a Z06 vette to a regular Vette? noo..its just a matter or whats under the hood now..the Z28 is the street fighter of the day..more so than an SS why..more people are willing to sling there Z around than a 35K SS..so a Z28 I think in the manner ofthe public gets the nod as what its bought for..

A "Z 28"

 

I can tell most Mustangs apart from a 1/4 mile away. As far as a Z06....I can tell one apart from a regular Vette from a mile away.

 

I do believe the 4th gen Z28 was worthy of the name because of its performance (which matters the most). Of course, the addition of nicer wheels, better hood/spoiler, etc would have made it a little easier to brag about over your sister's V6 Camaro sitting next to it in a parking lot. I never seem to have trouble differentiating those lowly V6 Mustangs from GTs.

 

quote from Z284ever - Z284ever - Happy belated Thanksgiving to you too! Sure, I think the slash was cool. I also think the "Heavy Chevy" moniker on some Chevelles was cool. Nowadays though, such nameplates seem a little outdated. You're a fellow IROC-Z owner (congrats! BTW). How do you feel about that name? I for one am thankful I have a Camaro that stands out from the others thru the years, with its own distinct label and racing heritage. To me the IROC-Z is a very special muscle car, and it has an exact and unmistakable chronological reference point in Chevy and US History. It might shock you but I am glad Chevy chose IROC-Z instead of Z/28 for that car's name. The IROC-Z was a huge success... but again those were different times, with different buying public demographics and average age. My point: I'd rather have Chevy think up a creative new marketing thrust for the next Camaro than go rummaging thru their attic for a retreaded relic (more later on that).

I agree with another poster herein who said the Z/28 and Z28's are the 'street fighter' Camaros. Especially the modern Z28's, which as of today are still the performance kings of the street (you can still buy them new although they are getting hard to find). Quick someone, name another car which is available new today for $22k-25k with 310+ (rated ) hp? Friends, if that isn't true to the original Z/28 with the headers in the trunk, I simply don't know what is.

This stuff about Brembo brakes - a bunch of hooey if you ask me. Why doesn't the Z06 have Brembos? Simple. It doesn't need them. OEM brakes are just fine, thank you, as long as sized right and made with good materials. And the Z06 does come with all-important red calipers

On the Z28 being a minimalist package, ok. It is without certain frills. So what? It's got the goods under the hood And while we're comparing to the almight Mustang, answer me this. Where's the Mustang's:

1. T-Tops
2. Hatchback and folding rear seat for cargo versatility
3. Ergonomic steering wheel-mounted stereo controls
4. Dentproof fenders, doors and hatch?

quote from Doug Harden:You're obviously entitled to your opinion... but may I make the observation of how incredibly jaded that sounds? Lack of commitment? How about the entirely new body and structure with dentproof panels, with world-class crashworthiness? Retained accessory power, enhanced ergonomics, monsoon stereo with 12-disc factory CD changer operable from the steering wheel? I could go on... but never mind. As for the engine though. How ridiculous it is to call the amazing LS1 a 'base' V8! This pushrod V8, winner of Wards 10 Best Engines of the World, with 310-340hp, stump-pulling torque, low maintenance needs and stellar fuel economy! Go ahead, call it base I call it King of the Street

quote from ibanez6rg 4gen Z28

You guys want some theme ideas for upcoming performance Camaros... why not suggest some new ones right here? If nothing else it would help you understand how hard it is to dream up something new. I am working on some theme ideas... will post here in a day or two.

 

......the fact that the basic platform has not significantly changed since the first 3rd gen in 1982......20 years of the same platform does not show a commitment to me.......the fact is the body panels, etc...you speak of were a result of GM trying to salvage something from the GM-80 FWD program we almost got stuck with.

Also, the decision to kill the car came as early as 1997......the last time they actually advertised the car (I also have independent confirmation of this fact).........if it wasn't for the tireless efforts of people like Scott and a few other heros, we would not have had a car past the year 2000....much less be allowed to use the LS1.

Additional options like creature comforts, etc...come more from a corporate movement than individual model enhancement.........the Grand Prix had steering wheel controls by 1997, if not earlier.

While I will agree that the last F-bodies that rolled off the line were the best F-bodies ever they obviously died due to a lack of committment to advancement and future product planning.........IF GM was truly committed to this car we would not be in a hiatus right now.

So, yes, maybe I was off by a few years by the late 1980's comment.......but not by more than 3-5 years at best.......



PS...The brakes on the f-bodies warp with regularity and of you've ever road raced or autocrosed you'l know these brakes are fine for the street but not nearly up to snuff for track time....I'll keep my BAER PRO+ brakes thank you

 

I didn't like it. In fact it almost prevented me from ordering the car, (I'm the original owner).

I've always thought the IROC racing series was kind of stupid, especially after the first couple of seasons, when they went with tube frame "silhouette" cars.

There was no glory to win in that racing series for the cars or their manufacturers. Racing did not improve the breed in this particular case.

But, what are you gonna do? At least my non-Z/28, IROC-Z, stll had a Z28 emblem on the passenger side dash board ....as did all '88-'90 IROCs... even though Chevy dropped Z/28 for those three years.

 

This was basically the stuff I was responding to:

The 4th Gens received 1 front clip and 1 tail light restyle over its span. This is the exact number of MAJOR changes that the 3rd Gen received. I don't categorize wheels or changes in sticker location as being major updates.

Thanks for the help with the 3rd Gen model year pics I posted earlier. I was just going by what it said on the site. I think they still help validate my point. I don't know where the notion came in that GM changed its cars both frequently and majorly from model year to model year in the past. Like guionM says, there's a lot of revisionist history floating around here.

 

The 4th gen is over with. It's dead. Let's just hope they give us a real Z28 (or Z/28) with the 5th gen comes out!

 

geeeze....We still were not talking about yearly changes but if you still want to play that,3rdgens had more exterior changes major or not. 3rdgens changes/differences were:nose,tailights,wheels,ground effects,grills,3rd brakelight,rear spoiler,hoods,fog lights and those things told the differences from low/high end models when seeing them from a distance. Anyway no harm no foul we're still fans of the Fbody when it comes down to it

 

Actually I don't mind minimum frills. I see a certain beauty in a minamilist approach.

But we shouldn't confuse lack of frills with lack of flair. And the 4th gen Z/28 lacked any flair whatsoever...in the way Chevy imaged it...in the way Chevy presented it....and in the lack of any notable or interesting hardware, other than the LS1 itself.

Like I said previously....it would have made an excellent $22k Nova SS (if it had a bigger rear seat), but fell far short on capturing the elusive mystique that so completely defines Z / 28, and which still so strongly captivates so many of us.

 

Z28 is an RPO, theres no /.

Third Gens were changed many times. ALOT more than the 4th Gen thats for sure, and you can tell all the models apart. In the 1st and 2nd Gens it was pretty much the same, you can tell them apart and usually by year too. The 4th Gen Z28, after the SS came along, was reduced to a mid model with nothing going for it but an engine and lower price. In all other Gens the Z28 was the top model with distinct differences and improvements from the rest of the lineup. (engine, handling, braking, and looks) So should have they been called Z28's?? IMO, no. They should have been the RS's. (this is where more engines becomes useful) There should have been no SS and the Z28 should have had an SLP upgrade option something like the IROC option. The IROC option took a Z28 and enhanced it making it an IROC-Z, a commemerative IROC-Z28 for the cars being used in the actual races which inspired better looks and performance. It said, "this is the Z28, the top Camaro and now we're making it better." It didn't take a model name from way back and change/revise what is what and what should be like calling the car SS did, making the Z28 the RS of the later 4th Gen.

And here is real pictures of the 2 different styles of IROC-Z's. As you can see the stripes are different, emblems changed places, door edge guard was changed, and the rims were changed. They also had interior differences too. Especially in 90, which I didn't like too much.

85-87: http://iroc.fbody.com/images/CAMARO2b.jpg
88-90: http://www.iroc-z.com/1988pages/1988.../1988pic15.htm