Dragoneye

Challenger: yes
Camaro: no

bossco

Yes, trot out that tired line, but I dont remeber saying "if Ford made a 6.3 with 80hp/L it would make 506hp"

I suppose they could have gone the GM/DC route with a 6+ liter 400hp engine for the base V8, but I'm glad they didn't. At least if the engine materializes in the '11 GT it will be nice to hear people switch gears from "Ford needs to use FI to get 400hp to Ford needs .4 extra displacment and 32 valves to get 400hp".

bossco

Probably will be a pricey little engine (still cheaper proably than the FI 5.4) but its going in a 5 year old chassis that exceeded Fords own sales estimates so I'm sure they can use that to thier advantage in the price game.

teal98

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Some people were very vocal about Camaro having to get IRS, but that's part of the reason why the Camaro is heavier. I'll be curious to see which way the market goes vis-a-vis simpler, lighter solid axle versus heavier, more sophisticated IRS.

Of course, there's a lot more to the equation, so we won't really know.

If Ford manages to bring this puppy in at 3550 pounds and 400hp, I'll be surprised (and very happy for Ford).

IZ28

I just hope they realize that if they keep reducing weight by cheaping out on interior (which it looks like they're gonna) and no IRS (which it looks like they're gonna) that they will continue to be thought of as outclassed by cars like the Camaro, even if they are lighter and slightly quicker. I just doubt GM will let them have a speed advantage for long if it happens.

guionM

Being that we're talking about a 5.0 liter engine versus a 6.2 liter engine both putting out the same horsepower, I'd say Ford did alot more than simply catch up to the LS2.... or LS3 for that matter.



At the moment there is no smaller lighter Mustang being developed at Ford.


No, it's the math that people who can actually count and understand as well as comprehend displacement (or at least understand that 5 is less than 6.2) use.


But that Hemi sized 4.6 IS actually lighter than an LS2..... and by association, most probably the LS3 as well.



Exactly.


The Mustang GT will run about $26K. The Camaro SS will run at $30K.
The Mustang GT will weigh about 3500 pounds, the Camaro SS 3900.
The Mustang GT will have 400 horsepower in 2011. The SS, 422.

You say GM won't let them have that speed advantage for long.
What? Do you actually think Ford is going to sit still?

I've said this at least a dozen times here in the past 6 months. Ford in general, and Team Mustang in particular isn't running the same program they ran 10 years ago. These guys are playing serious... and Ford's behind them this time!

msgZ28

Meh, I'll believe it when when Ford actually publishes the specs for the engine and car. Regardless, for two similar cars with similar price tags (I highly doubt GM will be so stupid as to charge $4k more for the V8 ), I'll go for the one that looks better: the Camaro.

All that said, I sincerely hope that Ford is able to produce a kick *** 400hp, 3600 lbs. Mustang. Competition improves the breed, and that will only mean an even better Camaro down the road.

the pool boy

I agree completely. Rumors of this 5.0 have been circulating for years now, and I believe the latest gossip before this thread was concerning Ford being content with the 4.6 until the EcoBoost motors arrive. It's all hearsay until something substantial is released.

super83Z

Well fine if its such a shining achievment to get 400 hp with less liters than the LSX motors, than how about making MORE than 400 hp with only 16 valves, 1 cam and worthless pushrods? Can you count and comprehend that guy?

boomer78

But it takes GM 6.2L to make 400+hp ...pfffff...
I kid, the LSx's are nice engines.

Ford is serious about the 5.0L.
Guy hit the nail on the head.
It has the weight card on its side, as well as 5.0L engine when it comes out.
It's also on the lighter side of what we'll see this engine capable of in its various configurations in the future (F150 torquey engine not withstanding)

MonkeyManZ28

ford always tries to talk a big game, and when the game starts they always have their weiner between their legs, hence the so called "hurricane motor": Owned:

96_Camaro_B4C

No, they'll have caught up when their engine offers 422 or 436 hp. 400 hp = LS2, hence the "caught up" statement. And it is still down on torque. Size, weight, packaging, cost, and efficiency are what matter. Not piston displacement. I think we've covered this, haven't we? Fine. Still basically pointless beyond some theoretical / academic exercise. We've seen numbers both ways on this, IIRC. But regardless, if the 4.6L is lighter (and it should be), it isn't lighter by much.Sources? Well equipped GTs are already well past $26k, at least the last time I looked. And I doubt the price will come down in the coming year or two.Hard to argue here. Though some have said 3600-3650 for the revised Mustang. As you know, I'm a fan of the Mustang. I love the styling (in and out) and the way the car drives. And I am one who is disappointed in the Camaro's weight (but cautiously optimistic after talking to those who have driven the new one).We are talking 2011 now? Who's to say the SS will still only have 422 by then? However, my entry into this thread was specifically about engine output, not necessarily the performance of the overall car (since the lighter Mustang obviously shouldn't need as much power to run with the heavier Camaro). Can't argue with that until they come out and we see tests. I'm just taking issue with the boasting about this 5.0L somehow being the equal or superior of the GM small block. On the other hand, if it really spins to 7K and makes that power, it sounds like an engine I'd love to operate.

One thing of note, though, despite the seeming hp/mass advantage of the Stang (in 2011!). It seems that whenever I see Saleen, Roush, or other tuner Mustangs, they never seem to be as quick as their claimed HP numbers would indicate. So we'll see how a 400 hp (from the factory, instead of a tuner's claim) Mustang does. I personally like both cars, so a fast Mustang is fine by me. As I've said many times, I personally don't view Ford as the enemy anymore. Toyota is the enemy. They did for quite some time in the '90s. It took the '03 Cobra to finally have a car that was reliably quicker than the Camaro/Firebird. Then they came out with a new gen Mustang (one that has admittedly sold like gangbusters, and one whose styling I love) that is still a bit behind the LS1 F-cars. Kinda moot, since the F-car died, but Ford has been the slower of the pony cars for a while now, with the exception of the '03/'04 Cobra and the Corvette-priced GT500. Good!

GTOJack

I know someone working on the 5.0 Ford engine. It does exist and it is comming. 400hp, 32 valves, 7000 redline. My Bullitt has 3.73 gears with 315hp and a 5 speed. It handles great but makes me think its underpowered and could use another gear. I have a feeling the 2011 Mustang GT is going to be incredible.

My Red 93Z-28

Is it SIDI? If so, can't you run 87 octane on an 11:1 cr SIDI engine when you would have to use premium for a non-DI 11:1 cr engine?

Z284ever

I have that feeling too.