Best handling stock ride height set up?
09-28-2002, 07:05 PM
#16
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Location: Brookville, PA
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Best handling stock height setup?
I very much like my stock springs, with Koni fronts, Bilstein rears and a 35mm front sway bar.
At least it was good enough to win the SCCA ProSolo champioship in F Stock this year (and the car finished 2nd @ solo2 Nat's too, I loaned it to a friend).
I very much like my stock springs, with Koni fronts, Bilstein rears and a 35mm front sway bar.
At least it was good enough to win the SCCA ProSolo champioship in F Stock this year (and the car finished 2nd @ solo2 Nat's too, I loaned it to a friend).
09-29-2002, 06:29 AM
#17
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Nice to know stock springs aren't a huge impediment to handling. That's impressive 01 FS Z28!
Anyone care to comment on Koni vs. HAL (remembering that I am interested in the best compromise between high performance street and drag strip use)?
Rich Krause
Anyone care to comment on Koni vs. HAL (remembering that I am interested in the best compromise between high performance street and drag strip use)?
Rich Krause
09-29-2002, 05:00 PM
#18
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Location: SW Michigan
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Like I said earlier the only big disadvantage to stock ride height is lack of neg camber. If not trying to stay withing a set of rules this is no big deal. Just pick up a set of new upper arms.
Hals the best shock for a 4th gen? I VERY highly doubt it. Not only are they a very low pressure gas shock but will react to shaft movements much slower providing sloppy control characteristics. They look Jazzy and I am sure they do perform great under drag race situations. But the best. To me the best shock is what controls the spring movements the best-Koni or Bilsteins.
Plus the Hals are not what I consider an adjustable shock. An adjustable shock has the ability to change valving characteristics. The Hals dont. Both rebound AND compression are adjusted at the same time. If I wanted a drag shock that was OK for street use I might go with Hal.
I think you are putting too much into the shocks effects on drage race launches. If you think I am crazy and that it does make a difference test them yourself. IN THEORY Koni and Bilstein will hurt drag weight transfer because they will not let the front wheels un-weight themselves as much or as quickly. But they will control spring movements much better, provide a better than stock ride and provide Desireable handling characteristics.
With that said I went with revalved Bilsteins on my car. Handles great and rides pretty darn good despite telling Sam I didnt care about ride quality. Would it launch well? Nope. But it has a big heavy front sway bar stiffer than stock springs and is lowered 2" Killing anti-squat char.
Point to all this. The advantages gained by properly valved Bilsteins or Konis FAR OUTWEIGH the disadvantages.
Hals the best shock for a 4th gen? I VERY highly doubt it. Not only are they a very low pressure gas shock but will react to shaft movements much slower providing sloppy control characteristics. They look Jazzy and I am sure they do perform great under drag race situations. But the best. To me the best shock is what controls the spring movements the best-Koni or Bilsteins.
Plus the Hals are not what I consider an adjustable shock. An adjustable shock has the ability to change valving characteristics. The Hals dont. Both rebound AND compression are adjusted at the same time. If I wanted a drag shock that was OK for street use I might go with Hal.
I think you are putting too much into the shocks effects on drage race launches. If you think I am crazy and that it does make a difference test them yourself. IN THEORY Koni and Bilstein will hurt drag weight transfer because they will not let the front wheels un-weight themselves as much or as quickly. But they will control spring movements much better, provide a better than stock ride and provide Desireable handling characteristics.
With that said I went with revalved Bilsteins on my car. Handles great and rides pretty darn good despite telling Sam I didnt care about ride quality. Would it launch well? Nope. But it has a big heavy front sway bar stiffer than stock springs and is lowered 2" Killing anti-squat char.
Point to all this. The advantages gained by properly valved Bilsteins or Konis FAR OUTWEIGH the disadvantages.
10-02-2002, 07:57 AM
#19
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Originally posted by lons94z
Like I said earlier the only big disadvantage to stock ride height is lack of neg camber. If not trying to stay withing a set of rules this is no big deal. Just pick up a set of new upper arms.
Hals the best shock for a 4th gen? I VERY highly doubt it. Not only are they a very low pressure gas shock but will react to shaft movements much slower providing sloppy control characteristics. They look Jazzy and I am sure they do perform great under drag race situations. But the best. To me the best shock is what controls the spring movements the best-Koni or Bilsteins.
Plus the Hals are not what I consider an adjustable shock. An adjustable shock has the ability to change valving characteristics. The Hals dont. Both rebound AND compression are adjusted at the same time. If I wanted a drag shock that was OK for street use I might go with Hal.
I think you are putting too much into the shocks effects on drage race launches. If you think I am crazy and that it does make a difference test them yourself. IN THEORY Koni and Bilstein will hurt drag weight transfer because they will not let the front wheels un-weight themselves as much or as quickly. But they will control spring movements much better, provide a better than stock ride and provide Desireable handling characteristics.
With that said I went with revalved Bilsteins on my car. Handles great and rides pretty darn good despite telling Sam I didnt care about ride quality. Would it launch well? Nope. But it has a big heavy front sway bar stiffer than stock springs and is lowered 2" Killing anti-squat char.
Point to all this. The advantages gained by properly valved Bilsteins or Konis FAR OUTWEIGH the disadvantages.
Like I said earlier the only big disadvantage to stock ride height is lack of neg camber. If not trying to stay withing a set of rules this is no big deal. Just pick up a set of new upper arms.
Hals the best shock for a 4th gen? I VERY highly doubt it. Not only are they a very low pressure gas shock but will react to shaft movements much slower providing sloppy control characteristics. They look Jazzy and I am sure they do perform great under drag race situations. But the best. To me the best shock is what controls the spring movements the best-Koni or Bilsteins.
Plus the Hals are not what I consider an adjustable shock. An adjustable shock has the ability to change valving characteristics. The Hals dont. Both rebound AND compression are adjusted at the same time. If I wanted a drag shock that was OK for street use I might go with Hal.
I think you are putting too much into the shocks effects on drage race launches. If you think I am crazy and that it does make a difference test them yourself. IN THEORY Koni and Bilstein will hurt drag weight transfer because they will not let the front wheels un-weight themselves as much or as quickly. But they will control spring movements much better, provide a better than stock ride and provide Desireable handling characteristics.
With that said I went with revalved Bilsteins on my car. Handles great and rides pretty darn good despite telling Sam I didnt care about ride quality. Would it launch well? Nope. But it has a big heavy front sway bar stiffer than stock springs and is lowered 2" Killing anti-squat char.
Point to all this. The advantages gained by properly valved Bilsteins or Konis FAR OUTWEIGH the disadvantages.
Rich Krause
10-02-2002, 08:12 AM
#20
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Location: Rochester, NY USA
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Rich, I am going to sell my rear Hal's if you would be interested in them. Mabye we can work something out on them and the ET's you have. The only reason I am changing them out is because I am going to get more involved in road course and will be going to a different setup. My Hal's only have ~5500 miles on them.
Jason
Jason
10-02-2002, 03:56 PM
#21
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SW Michigan
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Chances are you and alot of people are not going to arrive at the best set-up with double adjustables. I think you need to have a very good understanding of what changes in rebound and compression will do to the balance of the car.
Most commonly used adjustable shock for F bods that is performance handling oriented is the Koni single adjustable.
Bilstein shocks are not ajustable but isnt really a concern as they must be valved to the spring.
Double adjustable is the Koni DA.
I am a fan of the Bilstein shock but for your application you may want Koni shocks for the adjustable rebound. The rebound should be the only thing that will affect your launch. Give Sam (01 FS Z/28) a call and he will set you up.
Most commonly used adjustable shock for F bods that is performance handling oriented is the Koni single adjustable.
Bilstein shocks are not ajustable but isnt really a concern as they must be valved to the spring.
Double adjustable is the Koni DA.
I am a fan of the Bilstein shock but for your application you may want Koni shocks for the adjustable rebound. The rebound should be the only thing that will affect your launch. Give Sam (01 FS Z/28) a call and he will set you up.
10-15-2002, 03:17 PM
#22
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,249
Rich: FYI
Rich: I will be upgrading my brakes weekend after next. After thinking carefully about what I wanted to do, I have decided to install the stock springs back on with the Hal shocks (removing the HAL Drag springs) since I will be removing the spindles regardless. I will let you know my opinion as soon as I get some seat time. Thought you might like to know...
Ryan
btw...thanks for the idea
Ryan
btw...thanks for the idea
10-16-2002, 10:43 PM
#24
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At this point I have puchased the 1LE front and rear sway bars and the 1LE springs. The only question is the shocks. The Koni double adjustable sound like the best bet. But at ~$1,300 I am not so sure.
Any further opinions? Remeber, I want to come as close to the "best of both worlds" as I can with a stock ride height. Assuming the DA Koni's are "best", what's "second best"?
Rich Krause
Any further opinions? Remeber, I want to come as close to the "best of both worlds" as I can with a stock ride height. Assuming the DA Koni's are "best", what's "second best"?
Rich Krause
10-17-2002, 01:27 PM
#25
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Originally posted by rskrause
At this point I have puchased the 1LE front and rear sway bars and the 1LE springs. The only question is the shocks. The Koni double adjustable sound like the best bet. But at ~$1,300 I am not so sure.
Any further opinions? Remeber, I want to come as close to the "best of both worlds" as I can with a stock ride height. Assuming the DA Koni's are "best", what's "second best"?
At this point I have puchased the 1LE front and rear sway bars and the 1LE springs. The only question is the shocks. The Koni double adjustable sound like the best bet. But at ~$1,300 I am not so sure.
Any further opinions? Remeber, I want to come as close to the "best of both worlds" as I can with a stock ride height. Assuming the DA Koni's are "best", what's "second best"?
Shocks are a lot more complicated than they appear. What you would want to run depends GREATLY on what is done to the car and what you do with the car. For handling use, either Koni's or revalved Bilstein's are the what you want to stick with. Nothing else readily available compares.
10-17-2002, 05:19 PM
#26
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Oakland,CA.,USA
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I installed the sinlge Koni's per "Sam Strano". I have not been able to adjust the fronts, maybe they were installed wrong. I assume the fronts were set on soft like the rears. The overall ride is harsh but very stable on the road and
Thunderhill Raceway track.
Thunderhill Raceway track.
10-19-2002, 09:19 PM
#27
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The cheapest I have seen the DA Koni's is Tire Rack, which has them for $337 for the fronts and $280 for the rears. Total is $1,234 so they aren't quite $1,300, I'll admit. In any case, I will pay that if it's "worth it". But I really don't understand much about shocks. Do you (01 FS Z28) mean that when you adjust the SA shocks that all you are changing in rebound?
Help! I'm confused.
Rich Krause
Help! I'm confused.
Rich Krause
10-20-2002, 09:03 PM
#28
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Originally posted by rskrause
The cheapest I have seen the DA Koni's is Tire Rack, which has them for $337 for the fronts and $280 for the rears. Total is $1,234 so they aren't quite $1,300, I'll admit. In any case, I will pay that if it's "worth it". But I really don't understand much about shocks. Do you (01 FS Z28) mean that when you adjust the SA shocks that all you are changing in rebound?
The cheapest I have seen the DA Koni's is Tire Rack, which has them for $337 for the fronts and $280 for the rears. Total is $1,234 so they aren't quite $1,300, I'll admit. In any case, I will pay that if it's "worth it". But I really don't understand much about shocks. Do you (01 FS Z28) mean that when you adjust the SA shocks that all you are changing in rebound?
It's not worth it, *especially* if you really don't understand much about shocks.
Sure some instances warranty DA's, but they are rare, and they will require a race track and high speeds. BTW, DA's aren't warrantied like SA's are. Race parts and all.....Yes, SA's are rebound only adjustable (about 3 times the rebound vs. bump in shocks). The rebound is the critical aspect of the dampers.
10-21-2002, 08:09 AM
#29
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Originally posted by 01 FS Z28
I sell them for the same price FWIW.
It's not worth it, *especially* if you really don't understand much about shocks. Sure some instances warranty DA's, but they are rare, and they will require a race track and high speeds. BTW, DA's aren't warrantied like SA's are. Race parts and all.....
Yes, SA's are rebound only adjustable (about 3 times the rebound vs. bump in shocks). The rebound is the critical aspect of the dampers.
I sell them for the same price FWIW.
It's not worth it, *especially* if you really don't understand much about shocks.
Sure some instances warranty DA's, but they are rare, and they will require a race track and high speeds. BTW, DA's aren't warrantied like SA's are. Race parts and all.....Yes, SA's are rebound only adjustable (about 3 times the rebound vs. bump in shocks). The rebound is the critical aspect of the dampers.
Rich Krause
10-21-2002, 12:52 PM
#30
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Location: San Jose, California
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If you're going to go with Koni's, use the DA for the front, and the SA for the rear.
The front DA bump is actually useful for the car since it simulates more spring in the front. If you're willing to go 1LE soft...
The DA is bad for the back.. it is valved too stiff, well the bump at least.
Overall rebound is the important element, bump is more an adjustment for the track.. depending on the surface.
Steve
The front DA bump is actually useful for the car since it simulates more spring in the front. If you're willing to go 1LE soft...
The DA is bad for the back.. it is valved too stiff, well the bump at least.
Overall rebound is the important element, bump is more an adjustment for the track.. depending on the surface.
Steve