I have to get over to the car soon, its not where I am
I'll measure it up this weekend.

 

Alan (Mindgame) also made that statement, right before he left

Bret, i think i'm on the same page as Mark. I'm not looking for a specific cam recomendation with all the specs, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on what areas need to be changed and in what direction on a cam when going from a ltx to a single plane... When the time comes i will get the nitty gritty details on a spacific cam to run, but right now i and others just want to know what areas and how a cam would be optimized for a single plane.

Thanks bud!

 

Wow… please don't bring him into this… I believe quite possibly he is the most talented at "sharing" incomplete or partially incorrect/deceptive information of anyone that I've ever run across.

He's also the reason that I quit paying regular attention to this board... sorta took the shine off of it for me.

 

I mention his name and you flip out? I'm not bringing him into anything. I was stating that he had the same opinion as the one You stated of not being able to share ideas that are different and without being shunned and ridiculed, etc. That was all, thanks.

 

Lord knows I'm not going to pull a Mindgame.

I see what you are saying, and yeah it's not a secrect but somethings that I find I don't like to tell to everyone. Especially application specific stuff (i.e. LT1)

Lord knows I've been pissy around here because of personal things, you can ask the old man that. So forgive me for being a *****.

OTOH picking out a cam for a single plane can be a tricky ordeal. Why? Well because the heads you have hooked to it make one hell of a difference.

For example:

a 358 single plane with Brodix T1's that flow 300cfm and have a nice flow curve with good flow at .400 (260cfm or so)

now look at a 383 single plane with ported LT1's that flow 270cfm @ .600 and 240cfm @ .400, which is typical of a good head.

Those two motors are very different. The cam specs are vastly different because of the surrounding hardware so it's not easy to say which way it goes. I could easily say that the two cams running in about the same RPM range are going to need a 10-30 deg difference in duration, let alone different LSA's and valve events.

So there is no real generic way to go. All depends on the rest of the combo. That's mainly what I am getting at. On top of that if you have xxx setup and need a cam for it it's not like I'm vastly overpriced! It's going to cost you about the same if you bought the same parts from me or someone else, it's just the specs and the right parts are what you are paying me for over someone else.

On all my LT1 stuff I have a couple of cams that work really well and I don't give those specs out for three reasons. One: because if they are public knowledge then the little things I do different will become more common knowledge and that's not good for bussiness because the grind of the week guys just take that profile and setup over and use it for themselves. Two: the supporting parts make a big difference to what works and what doesn't. If I drop a cam on here and some guy uses it and puts the wrong supporting cast with it and it's not right for his setup, but I said it's the way to go and that's why he did it (lord help me if someone actually does that because of something I said) and it makes **** power, then that's a double wammy on bussiness. I give out stuff for free and then it turns to bite me in the ***. Three: exclusivity is a selling point. If I don't tell what cam you have to other guys it's up to you. On that note customers are more likely to keep the same cam specs to themselves. In the racing world even at a low dollar level keeping the secrects you are supposed to keep is very important for bussiness.

So therefore if we are talking about a 355 with ported LT1 heads and they are going from a LT1 intatke to a single plane then yes we are going into the cookie cutter territory. So that general direction is hard for me to push anybody in since it is of such great interest here. What directioion do you think you should go? I haven't asked that yet.

Motors like the Engine Masters motor are for public knowledge from the day they are run on the dyno in the contest. So I have no worries telling you the same things that the mag would tell you if they tore it down and looked at it. BTW that puppy ran a 214/224 110LSA and it's alot like the 355 in my example. Are those specs even close to what I would run in the second example, not even close. If I can get a sponsor/owner for the $15K 409 Small Block Roller setup I'm doing for next year then that one will become public knowledge too. Which seems like since it's going to be in the 650-700hp and 600ft lbs territory then we are going to have a great example to talk about on here.

Let me get to the rest of your post before I get back to that.

Granted the intake is going to flwo different from wet to dry and that's important, but that doesn't play a huge amount in the cam selection.

As for the low or high boost setups it's hard to find a difference on the dyno.

The blower is always putting something in the motor and at low RPM the intake is not helping with tuning pressure anyways and as soon as the pressure is counter acted in the intake at all then you are compromising the effect of the intake tuning pulses. Basically you have to think about it as though the stronger the pulses the higher on a absoulte scale the negative pluses are. The more boost you add the higher it is on a absolute scale also. The thing is the two don't work together very well since they are opposing sides. If I have 5psi (-5psi) of tuning pressure (which is only going to happen in the meat of the tuning area for a intake) and 5psi (+5psi) of blower pressure the tuning effect will be negated and I will make more power with the blower pressure.

In reality we are talking abou the low end of the RPM range and down there if we get 1psi (-1psi) we are doing well and at that point the blower is at least bringing us positive so it offsets the effect of it at all.

That's my take on it.

Back to the main thing.

I actually do get alot of guys coming to me from here about cams. Granted they are not the average joe and either they want a very good camshaft for their setup or know enough that they don't know enough.

I'm just a small shop who tends to like to do things the right way and have a great interest in what makes motors faster and better. That's all, I basically have been learning this since I was a little kid. It's like spanish and english to a mexican born here, you pick it up faster.

I do see your point in your post. Some guys do have a grasp of it, but I think they deal too much with the wives tales of camshafts for some of the design. At least I run into that a lot. It's great that people want to understand more, and in fact that is the vast majority of who I work with. People who understand more than the average joe.

Understand that I would love to be handing out camshafts and parts in my backyard haning out with my buddies drinking a few beers, but that's not bussiness. I hate having to say that because I've been in enough industries where the companies I worked for just ripped people off and people their were proud that they skinned another sucker. So I don't do that, but I do respect that my time is worth money.

Now if we want to get into how camshafts and intake relate to one another that's a great idea. But I'm not going to use specific examples for that one.

So that's what you are looking for? If so it's another post.

Bret

 

Interesting

 

Bret its a losing battle .. If we were Warren Johnson or Al corda cam knowledge being a secret would be accepted...But since we're not,we are expected to share, because we are obligated as a board member.. I'm still confused about that in general but have learned to deal with it..I run a carb style intake efi, have for many years before even the top names on any boards even tried them themselves...Dave dilucia being the very first noted person with a all out carb setup years ago..Cam design or theory goes deeper than any book would relish...knowing what events do what is only part of the equation the whole combo comes into play..I cant blame brett,mindgame or any experienced person to relish everything they know just from the goodness of their heart...ITs a competitive world ,what info one does give take it, use it, and be thankful you atleast got a tidbit of info to work with or think about...Because in fact, they didnt even have to share anything...I know this is off topic but this is being a regular occurence with me as well as others...

I guess since I'm a good person I should list every peice i used to obtain the ET I run ... some things you just dont tell, its priveledged information/or info learned over time ... Alot of it isnt public knowledge or ever will be..So as I said take what lil info you get from anybody,and be thankful you got that much no matter how minute it may be.. sorry for this thread being a sounding board back to topic..

 

Joe,

I do agree with you on that. The all hailed out of the box GM847 cam, just did a smaller cam design that will drive better and make more TQ below 5500 and more HP than it, but the 847 is still the best cam out there. ;-)

One of the things I think is humorous is that guys think that even if you tell them the specs of a certain motor it's the REAL specs. I'm sure some motor specs have been embellished to satisfy the persons curiosity.

Joe please don't tell us what you are running now until you change the setup and run faster, like a F1 team releasing the specs of a 2001 motor or us finding out what Pro Stock guys were running 5 years ago.

Bret

 

Content deleted by Moderator

 

The boys over on Corvetteforum have been playing around with this idea.. except they are using the stock TB (or 52mm/58mm) instead of the 4V holley version..

see here

 

There's some good info in this thread, if you can find it in between the personal attacks and insults.

Any more strictly personal attacks like the one from Evil Red LT4 (IP logged), and the thread will not be "locked", it will be "deleted".

 

Hey I can't help that the truth hurts and some people can't deal with it. The whole idea of a web forum is to help people and lend knowledge. Mr. Bauer does niether. He is arrogant. It is always the same story spend some money with me and I will give you advice. If that is the case don't come on the board

 

First let me appoligize to the mods and forum members for even having to read this rubbish. Seems like a waste of cyberspace to me to even respond to this, but I digress.

If you think I'm arrogant, good for you. I do offer help on here, but at the same time don't give away the farm. Hell it's better than some lawyers out there who you ask their advice at a party and they send you a bill on Monday. I spend my weekends during racing season at race tracks helping out customers or friends and most times they are both. The way I work is to discourage window shopping, once you are a customer I tell you everything you want to know and more.

The sad thing is you hide behind a fake name and come here just to attack someone, that's pretty spineless. Grow a pair or stop by my shop sometime and tell me personally. Basically grow up.

Bret

 

I can understand that certain members don't want to download
their brain and give away power secrets.

Some of these guys know who's behind the screen name, and
that may bite them in the *** on the drag strip with a disclosure
of certain information.

I think it's pretty sad that even a board of this caliber, there are
insults flying. It's sort of like any other board with a bunch of
kids bragging about their 9 second "stock" Honda Civic, except most of
you know what you're talking about...

FWIW, many of these guys spend hours of their free time helping
people like us sort out our problems.

I'd hate to see people like Bret run off because of certain members
that are not able to build on the information given.

 

I'm not going anywhere, this stuff makes this place more entertaining for me! lol

Bret