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How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

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Old Jun 19, 2005 | 12:57 AM
  #16  
Zero_to_69's Avatar
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

So the 2.3" mains (instead of 2.45") are to reduce bearing speed
Someone please explain, "bearing speed".

My initial thought is the reduction in rotational mass for the crank.

I've heard that turning a crank down and using plus size bearings can help
acceleration.

Another thought is that the oil wedge will be stronger between the crank and
bearing since the diameter is smaller (hydrodynamic wedge?).

Beyond that, "bearing speed" is a mystery to me.
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 02:24 AM
  #17  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Suppose the crank journal O.D. is 2.45" (standard SBC). If you mark a point on the crank journal, it has to slide over 7.7" of bearing surface per revolution. With 2.30" mains, a point on the crank journal only has to slide over 7.2" of bearing surface. So at 8500 rpm, it's like the 2.45" main crank is sliding on the bearing at 90.9 feet per second, while the 2.30" main crank is only going 85.2 fps.
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 10:18 AM
  #18  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
I think they do have a deck height rule but not sure... GM has a medium deck height SBC block which goes down into the mid 8's with a Aurora Bellhousing pattern on the back.

The 2.3" mains are for reduced bearing speed, but if you look at it a 3.25-3.31 stroke with a 1.85" rod journal already has a ton of journal overlap so why not go smaller it doesn't hurt the strength of the crank.

Bret
The rules keep them from running super small(super light cranks)rod and mains now. But they are doing some wild things with camshaft and valve trains right now. Testing rocker ratios and valve lifts unheard of a few years back. And to keep it alive right at and above 10000 rpm is pretty damn good not to mention 850-875 HP.
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 11:08 AM
  #19  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Originally Posted by Zero_to_69
Someone please explain, "bearing speed".

.. "bearing speed" is a mystery to me.
As TheNovaMan suggested, larger bearings equate to higher velocities between the stationary bearing shell and the moving journal. Higher velocities mean more heat generated and more shear of the oil wedge/film. You approach a velocity where the oil wedge is compromised.

Higher bearing velocities also mean more bearing friction hp losses, maybe 10 hp @ 9500 on a Cup engine, but I suspect the heating of the oil might be some of a problem for an endurance engine.

To calculated the bearing velocity: V= rpm x dia x .262/60, where bearing diameter is in inches and Velocity is in ft/sec. So 9500 on a 2.30 in main = 95.4 ft/sec. and a 2.45 dia. bearing would have an equivalent rpm for the same bearing velocity of 9500 x 2.30/2.45 = 8900 (approx). You can do this because bearing speed is directly proportional to bearing circumference which is directly proportional to bearing diameter.

FWIW, 88 ft/sec is 60 mph.
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 02:19 PM
  #20  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Originally Posted by INTMD8
That is beautiful. Crazy amount of work there.


So that 'cam tunneling' is to reduce windage from oil drainback?

If so, why would they not just cast the block like that? (Those pieces of metal look a bit risky to me)

INTMD8,

Yeap it's a way to control oil flow, reduce windage and bathe the camshaft in lots of oil for lubrication.

The Toyota block does have a cast in cam tunnel like the DRCE3 Pro Stock Block. I'm not sure about the Mopar in that area though....

As for the sheetmetal and epoxy, it's actually ok to do that, it's amazing how well this stuff holds up and how paranoid well all are about things like this.

Bret
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 07:39 AM
  #21  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Awesome pics!

I have a friend that works at DEI...I usually get to see some cool stuff on his street car motors!
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 01:53 PM
  #22  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

ws6t3rror, sent me this link as well....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...982037291&rd=1

Bret
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 02:57 PM
  #23  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Cam tunnel would work very well on a street driven solid roller car...
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 03:26 PM
  #24  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Much nicer pics! Bigger lifter bores too.
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 03:48 PM
  #25  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Originally Posted by JordonMusser
Cam tunnel would work very well on a street driven solid roller car...
Yeah especially if you drain the oil out of it high enough so you can bathe the cam about halfway up.

Bret
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 04:56 PM
  #26  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Thanks for the explanation guys. Just when you think you've heard it all!

Is this feature used at all on drag motors? I would think not as the crank
strength would be compromised.

Safe to say, you'd see small journal diameters in Indy/F1 engines as well?
Old Jun 20, 2005 | 09:14 PM
  #27  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Yep.... actually they don't need the crank to live as long so they have even less journal overlap than a endurance motor does.

Bret
Old Jun 22, 2005 | 01:49 AM
  #28  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Larger mains, larger lifter bores (without bronze sleeves), different lifter valley draining scheme, and no cam bath/tunnel. Definitely some different ideas than seen in the DEI motor.

Another thing I noticed is that all the sharp edges have been broken. Is that just a creature comfort for the engine builder, or is there an engineering reason for it?
Old Jun 25, 2005 | 02:30 PM
  #29  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Originally Posted by TheNovaMan
Another thing I noticed is that all the sharp edges have been broken. Is that just a creature comfort for the engine builder, or is there an engineering reason for it?
Both. Less cuts on your hands for sure and also relieves stress points. And to a very small extent it reduces weight.
Old Jun 25, 2005 | 03:36 PM
  #30  
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Re: How about good pics on the net of a Nextel Cup Block...

Yeah, first thing I do too... get the sharp edges off, my hands get beat up enough.
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