Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by Brady_96Z
Rich, we've done alot of engine swapping, LT1-BBC-SBC...
first and foremost, a tall deck big block will be a tight fit. Do-able, but not fun to work on AT_ALL.. Like spark plugs being worse than you can imagine..
For the street and occasional strip use, I would choose a short deck, big cube big block.. 10ish-1 compression, and throw the juice to if on the strip.
We had that 540" Shafiroff "Ultra Street" motor in my car, it made 728 HP on the brake, with an 1190 King Demon carb, but we converted it to EFI and it ran 138 mph @ 3500# in my car.. Pretty stout to say the least- and that was basically untuned- hell it didn't even have a MAP sensor, but that's another story..
We took that same 540 and put a single stage big shot plate system on it, (dry) and ran a 5.33 (600') at our local track on drag radials with a glide but the car still weighed 3380#.. It would go 5.50's in a true 1/8, and there's room for more nitrous..
And- this was done through a set of hooker 2455 headers which are almost a perfect bolt in with a tubular k-member
I went with a Dart Iron Eagle small block, short stroke, big bore, thumper turbo.. It doesn't make for much of a fun street car, but it's faster than the big block
Cliff notes: big bore 9.8 deck big block is a relatively easy fit and will make a super fun street car.. Nitrous to be low 9's at 4000#
good luck, and drop me an email if you have any specific questiojns.. We're putting a tall deck 572 in a '94Z now..
first and foremost, a tall deck big block will be a tight fit. Do-able, but not fun to work on AT_ALL.. Like spark plugs being worse than you can imagine..
For the street and occasional strip use, I would choose a short deck, big cube big block.. 10ish-1 compression, and throw the juice to if on the strip.
We had that 540" Shafiroff "Ultra Street" motor in my car, it made 728 HP on the brake, with an 1190 King Demon carb, but we converted it to EFI and it ran 138 mph @ 3500# in my car.. Pretty stout to say the least- and that was basically untuned- hell it didn't even have a MAP sensor, but that's another story..
We took that same 540 and put a single stage big shot plate system on it, (dry) and ran a 5.33 (600') at our local track on drag radials with a glide but the car still weighed 3380#.. It would go 5.50's in a true 1/8, and there's room for more nitrous..
And- this was done through a set of hooker 2455 headers which are almost a perfect bolt in with a tubular k-member

I went with a Dart Iron Eagle small block, short stroke, big bore, thumper turbo.. It doesn't make for much of a fun street car, but it's faster than the big block

Cliff notes: big bore 9.8 deck big block is a relatively easy fit and will make a super fun street car.. Nitrous to be low 9's at 4000#
good luck, and drop me an email if you have any specific questiojns.. We're putting a tall deck 572 in a '94Z now..

1. What K-member did you use?
2. Did you fit a manifold under the stock hood or use a cowl hood? What manifold did you go with?
3. Did you keep the stock PCM to run the gauges?
4. Did you bother with any kind of cold air intake or just draw from under the hood?
5. What distributor and were there major fitment problems?
6. What did you for an exhaust? You already mentioned the Hooker #2455, but what about the rest of the exhaust?
7. What tranny are you using? I'd like to just keep my Rossler TH400.
Thanks very much to anyone who can help with these questions. I will also email to Brady.
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by rskrause
Brady/others: I am getting serious about the BB in a 4th gen idea. So, I have a bunch of questions. If you prefer to answer/correspond via email, please let me know.
1. What K-member did you use?
PA Racing
2. Did you fit a manifold under the stock hood or use a cowl hood? What manifold did you go with?
Cowl hood, have to notch the cowl, but you can keep the wipers. We used a Vic Jr. intake, converted to EFI by Force
3. Did you keep the stock PCM to run the gauges?
The PCM isn't required for anything except the speedometer. I used to have it in my car, but it didn't make the last round of weight reduction. I still use the rest of the stock gauges though
4. Did you bother with any kind of cold air intake or just draw from under the hood?
Let it draw from under the cowl
5. What distributor and were there major fitment problems?
MSD Crab Cap distributor and a crank trigger. No problems at all.
6. What did you for an exhaust? You already mentioned the Hooker #2455, but what about the rest of the exhaust?
3-1/2" Dynomax race magnums w/turndowns.
7. What tranny are you using? I'd like to just keep my Rossler TH400.
Used to be a TH400, but switched to a glide. with a 4000# car, you'll need to stay with the TH400.
Thanks very much to anyone who can help with these questions. I will also email to Brady.
Rich
1. What K-member did you use?
PA Racing
2. Did you fit a manifold under the stock hood or use a cowl hood? What manifold did you go with?
Cowl hood, have to notch the cowl, but you can keep the wipers. We used a Vic Jr. intake, converted to EFI by Force
3. Did you keep the stock PCM to run the gauges?
The PCM isn't required for anything except the speedometer. I used to have it in my car, but it didn't make the last round of weight reduction. I still use the rest of the stock gauges though
4. Did you bother with any kind of cold air intake or just draw from under the hood?
Let it draw from under the cowl
5. What distributor and were there major fitment problems?
MSD Crab Cap distributor and a crank trigger. No problems at all.
6. What did you for an exhaust? You already mentioned the Hooker #2455, but what about the rest of the exhaust?
3-1/2" Dynomax race magnums w/turndowns.
7. What tranny are you using? I'd like to just keep my Rossler TH400.
Used to be a TH400, but switched to a glide. with a 4000# car, you'll need to stay with the TH400.
Thanks very much to anyone who can help with these questions. I will also email to Brady.
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
I loved your old setup. So my vote would be to do a forged rebuild. Sounds like a freak problem caused you to loose oil presser. It shouldnt happen again. You alreaty have everything for that setup, just rebuild the bottom end again. That to me would be the best street/strip setup, and get the best milage.
If you're going to go big block, my friend has had great results from his Reher-Morrison BBC 502. Dyno'd at ~ 1000HP, and if he had the guts to run it all out, its supposed to run an 8.0 1/4 mile. I dont know if any of their engines are streetable though, his is in a race car and run on alcohol. Check them out though http://www.rehermorrison.com/ His father runs their 409 small block too, and has had great luck with it.
I still say do a rebuild though
If you're going to go big block, my friend has had great results from his Reher-Morrison BBC 502. Dyno'd at ~ 1000HP, and if he had the guts to run it all out, its supposed to run an 8.0 1/4 mile. I dont know if any of their engines are streetable though, his is in a race car and run on alcohol. Check them out though http://www.rehermorrison.com/ His father runs their 409 small block too, and has had great luck with it.
I still say do a rebuild though
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by Injuneer
Might want to consider the Gen 1 SBC, with a 2-stage nitrous system. 125-shot for the street, another 150-175 for the track. You could be looking at close to 550 on motor - pretty mild, 675-700 with the little shot and 875HP with the big shot.
That's basically the way I started out... but then the NJ "mobile emissions" inspection shut me down as far as street driving, and now I'm sort of "stuck" with a car I can't really drive on the street - even though it would pass rolling emissions, and isn't fast enough for the track.
For a street driven car, I would think the SBC would be a lot more manageable than the added weight of the BBC.
That's basically the way I started out... but then the NJ "mobile emissions" inspection shut me down as far as street driving, and now I'm sort of "stuck" with a car I can't really drive on the street - even though it would pass rolling emissions, and isn't fast enough for the track.
For a street driven car, I would think the SBC would be a lot more manageable than the added weight of the BBC.
How does "rolling emissions" work? They can stop you and inspect the car even if it passes tailpipe? Oh, Brave New World! Maybe it is all for "Homeland Security"?
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by PatrickCarter
I personally want to do the BBC, EFI with a 6 speed. All aluminum, and 60z cubic inches of fun 
P

P
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by Jimmy17
a built up or viper adapted t56 is good for 6-700 ft-lbs with easy launches isnt it? still i guess thats on the milder side of a 600 inch big block
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Get the General's 572 BB crate engine 800+ on fuel and 780 on pump gas with the 800HP version.That way you don't have to buy all the BB accessories,valve covers,pan,plug wires,ect.
Just knock the wood off and install.
Just knock the wood off and install.
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
Originally Posted by mongse_1
G-Force, Jericho, Liberty, etc.
Interesting thread...gives me bad ideas. lol
Interesting thread...gives me bad ideas. lol
Rich
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
If you are running a T-56 in that 900+HP car then go for it.I don't think a T-56 will stand up behind a 502+CI or larger BB if you "hook" it.You may get Liberty or somebody to fix it where it can but $$$ and you are going to need a clutch from hell and not a Spect stage 2.
Re: Gen I SBC vs. BBC in 4th gen.
When I broke my T56 I called around to quite a number of places looking for beefier parts. G-Force was pretty confident in recommending their beefed T56... claiming that it's "conservatively" rated for apps making 900hp. I bought the do-it-youself parts but not the tranny. Nice to know I could throw a 200hp shot on it if I ever wanted to. 
I think this project of Rich's would really be pushing the limits though. The manual trannies that do have the guts aren't going to make for pleasant shifting in a daily commuter. I used to have a weekend driver with a Jerico 4 speed in it. Wasn't too bad but man, I wouldn't want that in anything I had to drive through alot of traffic with. Strong tranny with violent full throttle shifts but not exactly driver friendly.
Rich,
Are you planning to go FI with this project? Gonna use a carb-type intake or something with a front-mount throttle body? If carb-type, the longblock crate motors might not be a bad idea.... although that 572 does have a tall deck....
-Mindgame

I think this project of Rich's would really be pushing the limits though. The manual trannies that do have the guts aren't going to make for pleasant shifting in a daily commuter. I used to have a weekend driver with a Jerico 4 speed in it. Wasn't too bad but man, I wouldn't want that in anything I had to drive through alot of traffic with. Strong tranny with violent full throttle shifts but not exactly driver friendly.
Rich,
Are you planning to go FI with this project? Gonna use a carb-type intake or something with a front-mount throttle body? If carb-type, the longblock crate motors might not be a bad idea.... although that 572 does have a tall deck....

-Mindgame


