Figured I'd post my question here in "Advanced Tech". Anyone care to help me with this question. I've seen praises of NPG vs traditional engine coolant, (50-50 mix water and antifreeze), but I have not seen anyone compare or test NPG+ vs 100% water. The main question is "which would work better for the LT1?"

Question 1. As far as our LT1 motor and cooling system is concerned, Will NPG+ cool as well or better than 100% water?

Question 2. What is it that helps the engine to not detonate? (when talking about the cooling system).


Thanks in advance,
Karl Ellwein, 95 Impala SS, Cast crank, stock rod 383LT1 with ported GMLT4 heads and mild Crane SR cam. 12.10 @ 112 mph all natural, Ed Wright PCM Tune.

 

From the research thats been done, its all a bunch of marketing BS, remember to use distilled water, not tap water. It is a product used in the aviation industry, relabled and price hiked.

 

I am a 100% distilled water user. But I was reading another thread that had many people touting Evans NPG.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...9&referrerid=0

That's what got me wondering if there was any evidence that it was better than water.

Karl

 

It was an LT1 Edit lister, running 9 second quarters who did the investigation and I trust his info as he provided plenty of data to help back it up. I love distilled water, the water coolant sensor wants to see some conductivity (coolant) so 5/10% is nice, plus thats actually lube for the water pump, although you could just run pump lube I suppose.

Nothing beats distilled water that I've seen though, I'm running it straight in the 240Z (I know the comparo isn't a total help), and I hardly got above street driving temp, even with my crappy non electric fan, never even touched the half way mark. With a bigger engine though, that can be a problem. Make sure airflow to the radiator isn't 'leaking' out of the sides (supposedly there is a 1LE part for this, or build it), maybe a Griffin radiator or something at some point would be a nice investment. I hear mixed feedback on the BeCool stuff for these cars.

Throw in some water wetter too if you want

 

Pretty bold statement considering that there are quite a few knowledgable people on this board and in the race biz saying good things about this stuff. Some of which do alot more testing than you're average hobbyist engine builder.
Why not respond in the other thread where this subject originated from?

-Mindgame

 

Mindgame,
I was hoping to get some input from you on this. I asked the same question in the other thread but I figured that since there was no response, that I'd get a better response by posting a direct question.
Has NPG+ been found to work better than water?
I promise I have searched, and there is no resource on this. All the debate is vs standard anti-freeze.

thanks in advance,
Karl Ellwein

 

Karl,
I can't even pretend to be an expert on this subject cause I don't know enough to give you an answer. I'd could shoot my mouth off in quoting a bad experience someone had or whatever but I've never found that to be the holy grail of any product's effectiveness. Everyone's an expert these days.
What I do kinda understand is this..... water is for one, corrosive. It will cause cylinder liner rust and the corrosion works it's way through the cooling system, into the radiator where it ends up trapped... lowering the effectiveness of the radiator.
Another thing about water as I understand it is that it contributes to water pump cavitation. Water boils at the hot spots, creates a sheet of bubbles along that surface and once reaching a high enough temperature it fails to fully condense back to a liquid once passing through the radiator, hence the cavitation.
Of course, all of this can be read on the Evans website. BUT, this is not something that is just an Evans story... I've been reading this stuff for years in Circle Track magazine and quite a few other publications. So the problem with water has been known for some time.
Now... it is a great coolant especially with some kind of lubricant and or anticorrosive added to it. I've used water and Redline water wetter and it works great. However, that's in my race engines and they are constantly under the knife. I'm not too worried about corrrosion in those engines because they get a rebuild (boil out) almost yearly. I'm assuming we're talking about a street engine that needs a reliable cooling system that's gonna last. In that case I'd look for an alternative. Dex cool is a great product.... at the very least I would run it over straight water in a motor that needs to last. I still don't know about the Evans. It is no secret that you need a cooling system that's up to the task though. Evans doesn't try to hide that in any way.... they even suggest a high capacity water pump and low resistance radiator. I'm still up in the air on this but guys like Pat Musi have been using the stuff for a few years now and seem happy with the results. I may go with it in my next race engine build.

-Mindgame

 

Very much thanks for that reply.

Interesting that Pat Musi is using NPG. If there is a way to make more power with NPG, then I'm very interested in looking deeper into this.

I actually have strip-street motors, (more strip than street and rebuilt each year). I use 100% distilled water with Water Wetter and the Meziere water pump with BeCool impala SS radiator.

Glad you spoke up on this. The water pump cavition is interesting and needs looking into, (our pump would be better placed lower in the system).

I guess I could test the NPG stuff myself but maybe someone has already tested vs 100% water and could provide input? The thing about 100% water is that if the water pump is not providing enough flow, then the steam hot spots are a definite worry. But with enough pump flow it seems that in theory water would cool the heads much better than NPG, as long is the "departure from nucleate boiling" event does not happen. Nucleate boiling is good. Going past that is bad.

More input and ideas?

Karl

 

I may be wrong, but I thought Chuck/Mr. Horsepower was a proponent of Evans.... unfortunately he hasn't responded to this thread. Might want to try a search. He had some killer tech explanations, including a treatise on "nucleate boiling".... went way over my head!!!

If I remember correctly, demineralized water (= sorta like distilled) is the worst in terms of corrosiveness. When you operate steam systems, where the water is generally recycled as condensate, you have to provide a ton of water treatment, including oxygen scavengers to prevent serious corrosion. I have never liked the idea of using distilled water in recirculated systems, and have good luck with good ol' tap water/coolant mixtures. Of course living up north, unless you keep your car in a heated garage, or drain the radiator in the winter, you are going to end up with a block of ice without anti-freeze.

 

I'll see if I can get the info dug up again. I always thought it was the minerals in the water that was responsible for build up and corrosion, not pure water itself. Thats part of what anti freeze is good for though, anti corrosion, besides lube for your pump.

 

Thanks to LPEdave for digging it up for me:

 

And the plot thickens...

 

Indeed

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...threadid=74129

 

Regading that quote...

He is saying that the Evans sutff needs a faster-flowing waterpump to get the coolant to the radiator faster.

A thermostat slows the flow down so that the radiator has time to absorb the heat from the coolant, right? If you don't use a t-stat with the evans, and need a a faster-flowing pump, how does the coolant have time to transfer its heat?

Also, can you use a Meziere electric pump with evan NPG on an LT1?

Ryan