Unfortunatly i don't have 6K to spend on tranny stuff. =(

mirage,
6.385 rods are stock 454 rods correct? Are there other rods that will work with your same setup that you don't have to grind?

Rich,
with a 454T block, and a stroker assembly (crank, pistons, rods) would everything be a direct fit? (no modifications required?)

 

Yep, with a 4.25" crank you should be good to go.

Rich Krause

 

Sorry i didn't clarify. I meant if I had the tall block with a 4.50 stroke, would that be good to go as well?
Thanks for all of the help.

 

Man what happened to the days of when your only choices were 396, 427 or 454. Well I guess they call it progress. All the questions and feedback has been amazing when you see the possibilities and options you can have. It is amazing that stroker prices actually have come down quite a lot to compared to the mid to late 80's. Competition pricing at its best. Some of this advise is priceless. The internet has been a great tool, this kind of info you only got if you knew somebody in hardcore racing or engine building and if you were lucky to have somebody near you that you can just bug anytime. Didn't ,ean to go off subject but I always find it amazing the wealth of info we have here.. Andel

 

no stock rods are 6.135

I don't know about tall deck block, they might clear a 4.25 stroke and up to a 4.5, my guess is that the 4.5 will need some grinding.

The grinding isn't hard to do, I'm using a carbide burr with a 90deg elbow, it works great and takes out the material rather quickly.

All the mags and book said it would drop fine, I guess there's variation in the casting, mine need clearance, other might not (we'r not talking a gap here)

 

heres my take on buidling a bbc with this budget. since the budget is so limited just bore it 30 reuse the stock crank if its in good shape but have it polished and balanced. get scat rods and some good hyper pistons. now for the power producing parts. afr 305 as cast heads, they have awesome flow numbers compared to the others i've seen right out of the box. they run $1994 according to thier website. that leaves 3 grand to your engine budget. say $250 for a hydrolic roller cam $250 for roller lifters ~$250 for roller rockers. then figure about another 100 for pushrods. performer rmp air gap intake manifold (rectangle port heads) for 200 or so pick it up at a swap meet maybe less. figure another 350 or 400 for a carb. say another 350 for a set of coated headers (popular car so they're cheap) if you want it for less money look at coated flow techs (holley) they'll probably be around 200. that comes to right at 3700 bucks without thinking about the bottom end. take out 260 for scat rods. 280 for keith black hyper pistons. then you're left with 800 dollars for the machine shop. i know i've left out plug wires and a fuel pump and a distributor. but the combo i described should pretty much beat his goal to death without straining at all. plus those are the kind of items he can just upgrade here and there if he wants to pay for those now... well just go flat tappet and use stamped rockers for awhile. look for 10.5:1 compression, and a cam in the 240* @.050 duration range a bbc doesnt like low duration high lift cams very much in my experience. so dont be afraid to stuff a big cam into a bbc it can take it. the rest of you can feel free to tear apart my ideas but it seemed to me everybody wanted to spend the money where imho it doesnt give you the "bang for the buck"

 

the only think I'd change in there would be from hydro to solid cam for the exat same price. If you use a "street roller" cam, they are actually fairly easy on the valve train, and you'll make more power. I was using the 288AR comp cam on my 396, and I'll be re-using it for my 489. really liked it, good steady idle, and a good power band (specs are 244 and 622 on a 110). You could use a set of square heads if you find a good deal. The power band on the 396 was making power all the way to 7000, and the torque was really nice off 2500 and up (of cour on a bigger motor it will come down...my 489 is expected to peak at about 6000)....anyway, food for thoughts!

 

WS6T3RROR,
I would use the stock crank, if i had one. But you see i am going to be buying a whole new rotating assembly, this is why i was going to go with stroking it. After knowing this, would you still recommend what you did previously?

 

I agree completely. The number one consideration in this situation should be what heads will be required to make the power levels he is looking for. If you are going to use a cast crank and steel rods with KB pistons you should try to keep the power peak below 6500 rpm. A 5800-6000 rpm power peak would produce a reliable package and a nice broad power band with good low end power as well as the potential for 575 to 590 hp. With rpm limits and power levels established. ( say 575hp @ 5900 rpm) Consider that with an average engine combo you can get 1.9 to 2 hp per cfm of head flow. so a head that flowed around 300 cfm would be more than enough. The AFR 305's are deffinitely going to have enough airflow with nice small high velocity ports that will make for good response on the street. Now you need to consider the cubic inches that you will need to make the power you want in the rpm range that you want. Consider that an average street engine will make around 1.25 ft/lbs of torque per cubic inch on pump gas. Peak power will usually occur on a well tuned combo when the torque drops to between 87-90% of peak torque. So if you figure on using a stroker kit with 4.25 stroke and a .030 over bore you will have about 489 ci. (1.25 x 489) x .89 = approx 544 fl/lbs of torque at the power peak. 544 x 5900 / 5252 = 611 hp. These numbers are of course approximations but in practice they tend to get pretty close. This can show you that with those heads and a peak power near 5900 rpm you should be able to easily reach your power goals with a very mild cam, that will ensure high durability of the valvetrain and a long engine life. Using a compression ratio of around 10.5:1 would be safe with pumpgas and would work well with a hydraulic roller cam like the comp cams XR 288HR (236/242 @ .050 on a 110 LSA installed at 106) I would also avoid the Tall Deck blocks because they weigh more and the taller deck height will make for a slightly higher price when buying the manifold and Distributor. Plus with the tall decks the only commonly available intakes that I know of right now are all single plane pieces. Hope this helps.

Dan.

 

Alright, taking all into consideration. Say this is what i went with.

454 block bored 0.030" over with 4.25 stroke
Scat stroker kit (say 10:5 compression)
Edelbrock "Torker II Power Package"
Edelbrock Performer RPM oval port aluminum heads

What would the projected hp and tq be with this combo? Anybody have a different opinion about what options i have? You all are the experts, not I, let me know what you think!

Also, I want a manual tranny, i have been told to go with the munchie 4spd.
I will be running street tires, at the most drag radials - would the gm 12 bolt rear be the best route for me to go?

Thanks!
Jason

 

I dont think Id use the torker 2 power package. You could get a much better combo with the specs laid out above. Also I am not too familiar with the airflow rating of the rpm head but I doubt if it flows as much as the AFR piece that even has slightly smaller ports and only costs a few hundred dollars more.

 

Are the AFR heads that you are talking about aluminum?
Also,
You had said that the torker 2 package wouldn't be as good as a combo as the set up mentioned above, are you refering to what WS6T3RROR had said in his post about scat rods and hyper pistons? I like all that he suggested, except that I am going to stroke the engine as well to get the extra ci out of it.
As far as the cam, which would be better? the flat tappet or a roller cam?

 

All AFR heads are aluminum.

As far as the Torker 2 package is concerned I was referring to the cam you get in that system. I feel that the edelbrock systems are kind of generic and designed for people who want the ultimate in simplicity. It is designed to work with the edelbrock heads and with 454 ci. You will have more cubic inches than that and can therefore take advantage of a slightly bigger cam and keep the same rpm range.

I completely agree with the scat stroker kit. Scat crank and rods with KB hypereutectic pistons on an engine like that will be a great street setup. The only reason I recommend keeping the power peak at or below 6000 is because the parts dont need to be super strong to live at that rpm with KB pistons which are usually slightly heavier than forged units. Also the KB pistons fit in the bores with much tighter clearances and run quieter than forged pistons. This will help your rings, cylinders, and pistons live longer.

On a nice combo like that I would use the Hydraulic roller combo from comp cams. You wont need the extra high rpm ability of the solid rollers and you will still benefit from the more agressive roller lobes while having a completely trouble free and ultra reliable valvetrain. You can adjust the rockers and pretty much forget about it forever. Also an engine that size making that kind of power at that low of an rpm would idle great and be really consistent and a blast to drive on the street.

 

well seeing as this stroker thing has come into the combo for sure since you cant find a block with a good crank. if you do a 489 or a 496 or if you find a deal on a used 502 block. i would step up a size to the 325cc heads from afr they cost exactly the same as the lesser heads but flow more. besides with a good crank you can handle extra rpm so why not take advantage of it. the 325cc head flows 367cfm @ 600 and 290 @ 400. so you've got no problem gettin the air into the engine with afr heads. i've yet to find any that i like better out of the box. i'm going to go against the grain here and suggest a crane cam rather than a comp i just dont appreciate comps lift numbers on the xe's for bbc's. what i do reccomend if you get these heads for a hydrolic roller is a crane HR-296-2S-12 IG. specs for it are 234/242* @ .050, 296/304 advertised duration and .610/.632 vavle lift, a 112lsa. yeah its a little agressive with the lift and its going to lope but it'll still beat the pants off of a flat tappet of similar duration all day long and you'll love it in a 4 speed. adding the stroker kit you're going to excede your 5k budget. and heres my advice on that if you can possibly wait a little longer and save up more money for it (i know its tough these days) and wait just a little longer and get the better heads and and valvetrain you'll be that much happier with your engine combo. oh yeah one last thing when you bolt that sucker together total seal piston rings although expensive (relatively) they're a very good idea. just my hard headed $.02

 

What do you think of Comp's Xtreme Marine High Lift HR lobes?