Yes, but a 502 is just a bored out 454. So assuming a new rotating assy, if the block can be bored to 4.46" the cost is the same.

Rich Krause

 

You can spend and spend way to much on certain things, your hp level is easy to do. Not sure what a used 454 goes for in your area but they are plentiful here in Tampa bay. I have gone 8:60 NA in a 2800 pnd car w/ 454 60 over, 12:1, team g intake, box stock 1050, big roller and the kicker stock square port heads ported. Could build something faster but we bracket race mostly. We have also built a 642 that has gone 7's na in a full blown race car, no shortcuts there.Many guys have gone just as fast or faster w/way many more mods then I have. I believe in keeping it simple. I have built 9 sec motor 3100lb car 454, cast crank 3/8 rods 6800 rpm level and OVAL port heads but been ported a lot! and bigger valves. Remember the whole combination. I have seen 540 motors go slower then I have combo combo. We once dyno'd a 600 mountain motor and a 427 were within 50 hp levels but rpm was a lot higher on the 427. Yes i am lucky I had access to a dyno so I knew what works and what didnt. I would go 454 30 over 9-1 to 10-1 pistons, good dual plane intake like the edel rpm performer or equilavent, 850 for some extra ummph, try a 780 vac sec to see drivabilty, oval port open chamber heads with a good port job, don't pay to much for port job then I would go w/ Dart oval heads. Cam selection I would call crane or comp cams for advise. If you have any power accesories keep that in mind in cam selection. remember BB's make a lot of torque and that will propel your car. Hp level your looking for is in the 11 sec range if it hooks up and 10's in a light race car. Good luck Andel

 

A 502 is not just a bored out 454, A 502 has a different thickness in the castings if thats a way to describe it 454 125 over is a 482 about max one can go and not rec, thin walls at that bore and sometimes overheating. When we go that big on bore sometimes we use block fill in it to beef up the walls. One of the major engine builders I met has a simple rule if you didnt have your block sonic checked. If you can put a pencil through the sleeves in the BB once you removed the freeze plug 60 over was about a safe as you wanted to go. Here in Tampa a 502 brings a lot more money then a 454. Most of the bracket races are using them now. Cubes is still the way to go though

 

Well one more thing, you'll get many opinions here, but to me they are like belly buttons everybody has one. But thats what hotrodding is all about I've seen many combos that didnt seem to work on paper but they do. what Im trying to say is you just have to decide on the budget, and can you wait for some deals, go to the pits at some drags and ask around about somebody selling something. and some of the combos they are running. A BB is such a big engine its hard not to get close to the power level your trying to achieve even by mistake

 

I know this was explained above, but think of this.
Can you bore an LT1 out to 4.125" like the factory did the 400s?

 

No. Kind of like what I said about the 502 v. the 454. Depends on the casting. The factory LT1 blocks have thin cylinder walls. With sonic checking and careful inspection you may find one that can be safely bored 0.060" over, but that's unusual. Generally, 0.030"-0.040" is as much as you should go. A 4.125" bore is just plain impossible.

I don't have my engine references here (at the office) but the casting numbers and max bores for the various big block castings are readily available. WRT 454 v. 502, the guy is building an NA street motor. So for sure, if he can do it for the same cost big cubes are the way to go. It all depends on what block he can find.

Rich Krause

 

when you all say sonic checked, what are you referring to? I have been told to bore it out to 60 over, as well as 30 over... which would be better and why? If it was 60 over, would it have 468ci? or is this 30 over..
Thanks for all the help guys!

 

yes 60 over is 468, 462 is 30 over if memory serves me correct. Sonic checking is to check cylinder wall thickness and core shift, really not a issue if your going 60 over more so at 100 over or 125 over. I personally would go 30 first. gives you another size up later if you have a problem.

 

Agree, depending on the block. The blocks originally assembled as "454" are either Mk IV or Gen V blocks. Both can easily go 0.060" over. The same goes for the 502 blocks, but they start with a 4.466" bore instead of 4.250". Not to harp on it, but displacement is what you want for a street motor. If all you can find is a 454, but are buying a new rotating assy., then stroke it. With a 1/2" stroker crank and a 30 over bore a 454 is 518ci!

Rich Krause

 

i hate to sound like a noob here but i really am in this department. Could someone explain to me the idea of a stroker? What kind of #'s would a 454 bored 30 over and stroked put out? what different parts would I have to buy to stroke the engine, and what are the reasons this would be the better option?
the help here has been amazing, once again thanks!

 

F-bud: a stroker refers to an engine built using a crank with a larger stroke than originally installed to get more displacement. If you are buying a new rotating assy (crank, pistons, rods) anyway, it generally will be no more expensive to build a stroker than a motor with a stock stroke crank. The rods in the original motor may be reused, but at a minimum you need a new crank and pistons for a stoker.

HP depends entirely on what you build. The 518 I was referring to could be anything from a truck motor with ~300hp (and a ton of torque) to a 1200hp race motor. Obviously, the 1200hp monster will be a little more expensive to build! But a good rule of thumb is that a mild street performance motor will have no trouble making up to 1hp/ci. So figure ~500hp with basic parts and a mild cam.

Rich Krause

 

Hmm not bad. So if my goal was 550 hp, for a stroker what parts would you suggest... or would most be similar to the parts you recommended before? If i was wanting to increase my performance more, an easy way would be to install a cam with a larger life correct? For a stroker, would forged pistons and rods be the ideal? Also, for the setup you were talking about... would youstill use 3/8th rods?

Jason Leidner

 

Rich, what calculator are you using? You might wanna try that again.

A stock 454 is 4.251" bore with a 4.00" stroke.
.030 over 454 is 461 cid
.060 over 454 is 467 cid
.100 over 454 is 477cid
.030 over 454 with 4.25" stroke is 489cid
.060 over 454 with 4.25" stroke is 496cid
.100 over 454 with 4.25" stroke is 505cid

Personaly I'm considering using a 4.375" stroke which would give
.030 = 504cid
.060 = 511cid
.100 = 520cid

 

I was talking about a 4.5" stroke. That's where my example was from 4.28" bore, 4.5" stroke = 518ci. I built one once, that's why I used it as an example. But I just ran the numbers again and they are right.

It was just an example though, the possibilities are many. If I had a nice 454 block I wanted to make into a buget street motor I would go 0.030" over. Scat offers some stroker rotating assys with forged (1030) crank, rods, and SRP pistons for ~$1,500. I'd go for that with a 4.5" stroke and a "518". As far as heads, a lot depends on what you can find.

On a $5K budget I think you will be limited to a set of used heads. Iron heads will add a lot of weight, but are quite a bit cheaper. Oval v. rectangular port? That's an issue, but a lot depends on what you can find. I agree that the oval ports would be fine. The last time I played with a BBC I had a set of #3917215 iron oval post heads. It made good power, but was never on a dyno and I sure don't remember track times. There are many factory heads out there as well as aftermarket. You can buy a set of new complete Edelbrock Performer RPM oval port aluminum heads for ~$1,700 so maybe they aren't within a $5K budget? But the more I think about it, the more I like that idea. It's a matter of $$$.

Anway, for $5K it's gonna have a carb and again, the Edelbrock stuff is nice as they have a set of components that are intended to go together. What would work well is the "Torker II" package.

So:

454 block bored 0.030" over
Scat stroker kit
Edelbrock "Torker II Power Package"
heads will depend on finding a good used set

Should be no problem making 550-600hp with 500 at the wheels.

Rich Krause

 

Awesome. As far as transmission and gearing, i have been told in the past that for street, a turbo350. What are your thoughts on tranny? As far as gearing... i was thinking 4:11 but would that be okay for the street?