AFr 195, 210, 220???
#1
AFr 195, 210, 220???
I'm between what AFR head to go with. I have a 95 LT1 with the 383 bottom end. Eagle cast crank, 5.7" JE rods, and SRP 0.30 over forged pistons 10.5:1. I'm between running the 195cc, 210cc, or 220cc. I'm looking to spend 2k or less. Which ones should I run in order to make 450 to the wheels. Should I go with the race ready or competition package?Please help me out guys.
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks,
Joe
#2
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally posted by camaro4E
I'm between what AFR head to go with. I have a 95 LT1 with the 383 bottom end. Eagle cast crank, 5.7" JE rods, and SRP 0.30 over forged pistons 10.5:1. I'm between running the 195cc, 210cc, or 220cc. I'm looking to spend 2k or less. Which ones should I run in order to make 450 to the wheels. Should I go with the race ready or competition package?Please help me out guys.
Thanks,
Joe
I'm between what AFR head to go with. I have a 95 LT1 with the 383 bottom end. Eagle cast crank, 5.7" JE rods, and SRP 0.30 over forged pistons 10.5:1. I'm between running the 195cc, 210cc, or 220cc. I'm looking to spend 2k or less. Which ones should I run in order to make 450 to the wheels. Should I go with the race ready or competition package?Please help me out guys.
Thanks,
Joe
Rich Krause
#3
i just finished touching up valve seats with new valve job on a pair of AFR 210 CC heads 2.080/1.600 Full Competition CNC porting from AFR
a local racer tried to port the heads better and sand roll all the CNC marks out..in process he nicked most of seats,
so i redid a very light cheap valve job all he wanted
..and still have Flow Sheet with numbers in front of me
Intakes
.200---126.1
.300---185.3
.400---233.0
.450---251.5
.500---265.7
.550---271.2
.600---279.1
.650---284.6
.700---287.4
.750---288.6
Exhaust---------Exh/Int Ratio (No-Pipe)
.200---107.1 -----------84.9
.300---153.7------------82.9
.400---184.4------------79.1
.500---209.2-------------78.7
.600---223.2-------------80.0
.700---230.5------------80.2
a little less than AFR's numbers, but my FlowBench is on conservative side....if flowtested back on AFR's Bench ..they would be about the same or better
The Racer spent a lot of time on them porting and polishing, nicking up seats, for hardly any differences.....so be careful if you attempt the same as he did !!!!
Some additional Info AFR doesn't publish
Intake Port Mid-Port Length = 5.333" approx
(Roof = 6.165 + Floor= 4.500 = 10.665/2= 5.333)
Exhaust Port Mid-Port Length = 2.900" approx
(Roof= 3.865 + Floor= 1.935 = 5.800/2 = 2.900)
When comparing Port Volumes
make sure you are comparing Apples -to Apples
a 2.000" diameter port that is 1 foot long will hold a whole lot "Less " CCs than another same 2.000" diameter port 2 feet or twice as long
Both have the same cross-sectional area and if flow is same...then velocity is same , but a tremendous difference in Port Volume
just baseing Port velocity on port volume is a fair comparison, but not a very accurate one
you also have to "know the length" of the port !!!!!!!!
Chevy cast-iron Bowtie heads have 5.410" mid-port length
almost .100" longer "internal" port length than AFR 210
if both heads were ported to same port volume with same CFM flow, the Bowtie heads would actually have more port velocity !!!
it would be nice if "ALL" the Cylinder head manufacturers and Head Porters published Intake and Exhaust Mid-Port lengths along with Port Volumes
....then it would be easy to calculate mid-port velocity knowing
cross-sectional(from Lengths & Volumes) and flow CFM
a local racer tried to port the heads better and sand roll all the CNC marks out..in process he nicked most of seats,
so i redid a very light cheap valve job all he wanted
..and still have Flow Sheet with numbers in front of me
Intakes
.200---126.1
.300---185.3
.400---233.0
.450---251.5
.500---265.7
.550---271.2
.600---279.1
.650---284.6
.700---287.4
.750---288.6
Exhaust---------Exh/Int Ratio (No-Pipe)
.200---107.1 -----------84.9
.300---153.7------------82.9
.400---184.4------------79.1
.500---209.2-------------78.7
.600---223.2-------------80.0
.700---230.5------------80.2
a little less than AFR's numbers, but my FlowBench is on conservative side....if flowtested back on AFR's Bench ..they would be about the same or better
The Racer spent a lot of time on them porting and polishing, nicking up seats, for hardly any differences.....so be careful if you attempt the same as he did !!!!
Some additional Info AFR doesn't publish
Intake Port Mid-Port Length = 5.333" approx
(Roof = 6.165 + Floor= 4.500 = 10.665/2= 5.333)
Exhaust Port Mid-Port Length = 2.900" approx
(Roof= 3.865 + Floor= 1.935 = 5.800/2 = 2.900)
When comparing Port Volumes
make sure you are comparing Apples -to Apples
a 2.000" diameter port that is 1 foot long will hold a whole lot "Less " CCs than another same 2.000" diameter port 2 feet or twice as long
Both have the same cross-sectional area and if flow is same...then velocity is same , but a tremendous difference in Port Volume
just baseing Port velocity on port volume is a fair comparison, but not a very accurate one
you also have to "know the length" of the port !!!!!!!!
Chevy cast-iron Bowtie heads have 5.410" mid-port length
almost .100" longer "internal" port length than AFR 210
if both heads were ported to same port volume with same CFM flow, the Bowtie heads would actually have more port velocity !!!
it would be nice if "ALL" the Cylinder head manufacturers and Head Porters published Intake and Exhaust Mid-Port lengths along with Port Volumes
....then it would be easy to calculate mid-port velocity knowing
cross-sectional(from Lengths & Volumes) and flow CFM
#5
Good post Larry, port length and cc's are a good way to compare runner sizes.
As for what camaro4E should get..... A out of the box 210-220 Race port would be ok but a hand ported 195 would be better but bust your $2K budget.
Bret
As for what camaro4E should get..... A out of the box 210-220 Race port would be ok but a hand ported 195 would be better but bust your $2K budget.
Bret
#6
I'll second on ordering early if you are buying the heads from AFR. Expecially the larger port heads. I waited 14 weeks on an estimated 6 week wait when I ordered mine. They were ordered before Christmas and came in just a few weeks ago. Either way though, you most likely won't be able to get a set that is finished (ported) and assembled from AFR for under $2k. Maybe the smaller 190's or something like that but probably not the 210's and larger.
#7
#8
I got mine 210s race ready
flow numbers here
exhaust are piped
Lift... Intake / Exhaust
100.. 67.3 / 47.1
200.. 131.4 / 107.1
300.. 189.6 / 162.3
400.. 237.0 / 214.1
500.. 269.8 / 248.0
550.. 278.3 / 256.3
600.. 280.9 / 262.6
700.. 282.9 / 274.4
Price 1800+ shipping through TEA... I ordered in january 14th and they finally got them and I will finally get them this week
flow numbers here
exhaust are piped
Lift... Intake / Exhaust
100.. 67.3 / 47.1
200.. 131.4 / 107.1
300.. 189.6 / 162.3
400.. 237.0 / 214.1
500.. 269.8 / 248.0
550.. 278.3 / 256.3
600.. 280.9 / 262.6
700.. 282.9 / 274.4
Price 1800+ shipping through TEA... I ordered in january 14th and they finally got them and I will finally get them this week
#9
You never said what your plans wer for the engine, but from the looks of your component selection, I'd say hot street. Maybe an occasional track blast.
You will not need anything more than a 190cc head with the proper camshaft. Try to stay around the 220-230 degrees @ .050" zone.
Check out AFRs website they have numerous examples from various sources showing you exactly what you want and what you will get. Hot Rod, Chevy High Performance and every other magazine has articles and dynoed engine combinations supporting the same results. Iv'e been collecting these for about a year for my next project.
Remember, always pick the smallest camshaft and smallest volume runner you can to get the job done. You'll be much happier with the throttle response and drivability.
I haven't fired and tested the 315s on the big block, but will soon.
You will not need anything more than a 190cc head with the proper camshaft. Try to stay around the 220-230 degrees @ .050" zone.
Check out AFRs website they have numerous examples from various sources showing you exactly what you want and what you will get. Hot Rod, Chevy High Performance and every other magazine has articles and dynoed engine combinations supporting the same results. Iv'e been collecting these for about a year for my next project.
Remember, always pick the smallest camshaft and smallest volume runner you can to get the job done. You'll be much happier with the throttle response and drivability.
I haven't fired and tested the 315s on the big block, but will soon.
#10
Here you have my 210 Race Ready flow #’s, but they are way below what they should be. Dave AFR says, it’s because AFR flows them with a 4.150” bore and we used 4.030”.
100.. 65.6 / 52.5
200.. 127 / 107
300.. 183 / 152
400.. 228 / 186
500.. 258 / 204
550.. 264 / 210
600.. 271 / 214
650.. 275 / 216
I will post new flow #’s after Phil AI is finished with fine porting.
Arnold
100.. 65.6 / 52.5
200.. 127 / 107
300.. 183 / 152
400.. 228 / 186
500.. 258 / 204
550.. 264 / 210
600.. 271 / 214
650.. 275 / 216
I will post new flow #’s after Phil AI is finished with fine porting.
Arnold
#12
I bought my AFRs from www.strokermotor.com and paid 1695 plus shipping, I had a 2 and a half week wait.
#13
Originally posted by andy katzelis
You never said what your plans wer for the engine, but from the looks of your component selection, I'd say hot street. Maybe an occasional track blast.
You never said what your plans wer for the engine, but from the looks of your component selection, I'd say hot street. Maybe an occasional track blast.
Originally posted by andy katzelis
You will not need anything more than a 190cc head with the proper camshaft. Try to stay around the 220-230 degrees @ .050" zone.
You will not need anything more than a 190cc head with the proper camshaft. Try to stay around the 220-230 degrees @ .050" zone.
Originally posted by andy katzelis
Remember, always pick the smallest camshaft and smallest volume runner you can to get the job done. You'll be much happier with the throttle response and drivability.
Remember, always pick the smallest camshaft and smallest volume runner you can to get the job done. You'll be much happier with the throttle response and drivability.
I'm more of a fan of a big high flowing port that has a relatively high average velocity for the cubes under it and team that up with the smallest cam to do the job, on a street car. A drag car doesn't always want the smallest cam that can do the job.
Bret
#14
Seems as though the 383s deliver about 20-30 more hp than a 350, which helps. Plus, and I should have clairified, all the 383s I referenced have hydraulic roller camshafts (a tremendous help in the production of power). Check out Chevy High Performance's twister seriers.
I agree, however, most folks are unable to tune and be happy with a higher hp car that sacrafices some low end driveability.
We just switched a TPI vette over to a carb, and the owner was very dissapointed with the results. Now we have a converter and the carb tuned. Slowly a smile is growing on his face. With the gear change he'll be happy. Matched components.
"That Gets the job done" was key. I have a 3.73 and 3000 rpm converter in my car. But all the RPM and 15 MPG drives some folks crazy. Like you, I enjoy six thousand screaming RPM on the bypass at 120 + MPH. It just feels good.
As an additional example, prior to purchasing the AFR 315s for my big block, I called seven major head manufactures. They all said the same thing "err to the conservative side", seat of the pants torque makes customers happy. They must have been to the same sales seminar.
I agree, however, most folks are unable to tune and be happy with a higher hp car that sacrafices some low end driveability.
We just switched a TPI vette over to a carb, and the owner was very dissapointed with the results. Now we have a converter and the carb tuned. Slowly a smile is growing on his face. With the gear change he'll be happy. Matched components.
"That Gets the job done" was key. I have a 3.73 and 3000 rpm converter in my car. But all the RPM and 15 MPG drives some folks crazy. Like you, I enjoy six thousand screaming RPM on the bypass at 120 + MPH. It just feels good.
As an additional example, prior to purchasing the AFR 315s for my big block, I called seven major head manufactures. They all said the same thing "err to the conservative side", seat of the pants torque makes customers happy. They must have been to the same sales seminar.
#15
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by The Highlander
I got mine 210s race ready
flow numbers here
exhaust are piped
Lift... Intake / Exhaust
100.. 67.3 / 47.1
200.. 131.4 / 107.1
300.. 189.6 / 162.3
400.. 237.0 / 214.1
500.. 269.8 / 248.0
550.. 278.3 / 256.3
600.. 280.9 / 262.6
700.. 282.9 / 274.4
Price 1800+ shipping through TEA... I ordered in january 14th and they finally got them and I will finally get them this week
flow numbers here
exhaust are piped
Lift... Intake / Exhaust
100.. 67.3 / 47.1
200.. 131.4 / 107.1
300.. 189.6 / 162.3
400.. 237.0 / 214.1
500.. 269.8 / 248.0
550.. 278.3 / 256.3
600.. 280.9 / 262.6
700.. 282.9 / 274.4
Price 1800+ shipping through TEA... I ordered in january 14th and they finally got them and I will finally get them this week
http://u2.netgate.net/~jshapiro/heads.htm
I haven't seen exhaust numbers like that on anything short of an all-out 18 deg head or a fully-ported big block head.
I'm not sure what's going on, but I'd check over the specifics of the test.
Larry, maybe you can chime in?
Mike