camaro4E

I'm between what AFR head to go with. I have a 95 LT1 with the 383 bottom end. Eagle cast crank, 5.7" JE rods, and SRP 0.30 over forged pistons 10.5:1. I'm between running the 195cc, 210cc, or 220cc. I'm looking to spend 2k or less. Which ones should I run in order to make 450 to the wheels. Should I go with the race ready or competition package?Please help me out guys.



Thanks,
Joe

rskrause

I'd have a good port and valve job on the stock castings, get the right cam and valve train parts and you will be good to go.

Rich Krause

MaxRaceSoftware

i just finished touching up valve seats with new valve job on a pair of AFR 210 CC heads 2.080/1.600 Full Competition CNC porting from AFR

a local racer tried to port the heads better and sand roll all the CNC marks out..in process he nicked most of seats,
so i redid a very light cheap valve job all he wanted

..and still have Flow Sheet with numbers in front of me

Intakes
.200---126.1
.300---185.3
.400---233.0
.450---251.5
.500---265.7
.550---271.2
.600---279.1
.650---284.6
.700---287.4
.750---288.6

Exhaust---------Exh/Int Ratio (No-Pipe)
.200---107.1 -----------84.9
.300---153.7------------82.9
.400---184.4------------79.1
.500---209.2-------------78.7
.600---223.2-------------80.0
.700---230.5------------80.2

a little less than AFR's numbers, but my FlowBench is on conservative side....if flowtested back on AFR's Bench ..they would be about the same or better

The Racer spent a lot of time on them porting and polishing, nicking up seats, for hardly any differences.....so be careful if you attempt the same as he did !!!!


Some additional Info AFR doesn't publish

Intake Port Mid-Port Length = 5.333" approx
(Roof = 6.165 + Floor= 4.500 = 10.665/2= 5.333)

Exhaust Port Mid-Port Length = 2.900" approx
(Roof= 3.865 + Floor= 1.935 = 5.800/2 = 2.900)


When comparing Port Volumes
make sure you are comparing Apples -to Apples

a 2.000" diameter port that is 1 foot long will hold a whole lot "Less " CCs than another same 2.000" diameter port 2 feet or twice as long

Both have the same cross-sectional area and if flow is same...then velocity is same , but a tremendous difference in Port Volume

just baseing Port velocity on port volume is a fair comparison, but not a very accurate one
you also have to "know the length" of the port !!!!!!!!

Chevy cast-iron Bowtie heads have 5.410" mid-port length

almost .100" longer "internal" port length than AFR 210

if both heads were ported to same port volume with same CFM flow, the Bowtie heads would actually have more port velocity !!!

it would be nice if "ALL" the Cylinder head manufacturers and Head Porters published Intake and Exhaust Mid-Port lengths along with Port Volumes
....then it would be easy to calculate mid-port velocity knowing
cross-sectional(from Lengths & Volumes) and flow CFM

krazwag

theres a pair of brand new afr210's in the for sale section right now. May want to check them out. I believe theres a couple month wait for those heads.

SStrokerAce

Good post Larry, port length and cc's are a good way to compare runner sizes.

As for what camaro4E should get..... A out of the box 210-220 Race port would be ok but a hand ported 195 would be better but bust your $2K budget.

Bret

Turbo6

I'll second on ordering early if you are buying the heads from AFR. Expecially the larger port heads. I waited 14 weeks on an estimated 6 week wait when I ordered mine. They were ordered before Christmas and came in just a few weeks ago. Either way though, you most likely won't be able to get a set that is finished (ported) and assembled from AFR for under $2k. Maybe the smaller 190's or something like that but probably not the 210's and larger.

Hot Rod Hawk

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=246756

Highlander

I got mine 210s race ready

flow numbers here

exhaust are piped

Lift... Intake / Exhaust
100.. 67.3 / 47.1
200.. 131.4 / 107.1
300.. 189.6 / 162.3
400.. 237.0 / 214.1
500.. 269.8 / 248.0
550.. 278.3 / 256.3
600.. 280.9 / 262.6
700.. 282.9 / 274.4


Price 1800+ shipping through TEA... I ordered in january 14th and they finally got them and I will finally get them this week

andy katzelis

You never said what your plans wer for the engine, but from the looks of your component selection, I'd say hot street. Maybe an occasional track blast.

You will not need anything more than a 190cc head with the proper camshaft. Try to stay around the 220-230 degrees @ .050" zone.

Check out AFRs website they have numerous examples from various sources showing you exactly what you want and what you will get. Hot Rod, Chevy High Performance and every other magazine has articles and dynoed engine combinations supporting the same results. Iv'e been collecting these for about a year for my next project.

Remember, always pick the smallest camshaft and smallest volume runner you can to get the job done. You'll be much happier with the throttle response and drivability.

I haven't fired and tested the 315s on the big block, but will soon.

F6

Here you have my 210 Race Ready flow #’s, but they are way below what they should be. Dave AFR says, it’s because AFR flows them with a 4.150” bore and we used 4.030”.

100.. 65.6 / 52.5
200.. 127 / 107
300.. 183 / 152
400.. 228 / 186
500.. 258 / 204
550.. 264 / 210
600.. 271 / 214
650.. 275 / 216

I will post new flow #’s after Phil AI is finished with fine porting.
Arnold

Highlander

I'll be fine porting mine... I hope...

TEA was surprised at the exhaust port numbers...

I mean mine where 5 cfm less only which is about good and what I expected.

WS Sick

I bought my AFRs from www.strokermotor.com and paid 1695 plus shipping, I had a 2 and a half week wait.

SStrokerAce

Yeah he hasn't said that yet. Might be a good idea, tranny and stall/launch, gears and weight play into this as well.

Man, good luck on making really good power with a 383 and only 190cc, some of the best 355 motors I have seen have been in that area.

That's a rule that you are going to find a lot of people think, but it's not always the case. Overlap on the cam, along with valve job and the quality of the port, meaning a port that has a good average velocity for the size is going to be much more important than a small port and small cam. The bad thing about a small cam small port motor is that you choke it off so fast it kills any chance of making any HP. Most of us will trade off some drivablity for more power, how much is up to each guy.

I'm more of a fan of a big high flowing port that has a relatively high average velocity for the cubes under it and team that up with the smallest cam to do the job, on a street car. A drag car doesn't always want the smallest cam that can do the job.

Bret

andy katzelis

Seems as though the 383s deliver about 20-30 more hp than a 350, which helps. Plus, and I should have clairified, all the 383s I referenced have hydraulic roller camshafts (a tremendous help in the production of power). Check out Chevy High Performance's twister seriers.

I agree, however, most folks are unable to tune and be happy with a higher hp car that sacrafices some low end driveability.

We just switched a TPI vette over to a carb, and the owner was very dissapointed with the results. Now we have a converter and the carb tuned. Slowly a smile is growing on his face. With the gear change he'll be happy. Matched components.

"That Gets the job done" was key. I have a 3.73 and 3000 rpm converter in my car. But all the RPM and 15 MPG drives some folks crazy. Like you, I enjoy six thousand screaming RPM on the bypass at 120 + MPH. It just feels good.

As an additional example, prior to purchasing the AFR 315s for my big block, I called seven major head manufactures. They all said the same thing "err to the conservative side", seat of the pants torque makes customers happy. They must have been to the same sales seminar.

engineermike

I'm not calling you a liar, but those exhaust numbers don't sound right at all. My Race Ready 210's flowed 280 peak on the intake (almost identical to yours), but only 218 exhaust. 218 is very respectable from the exhaust as most fully ported 23 deg heads peak less than 200 cfm.

http://u2.netgate.net/~jshapiro/heads.htm

I haven't seen exhaust numbers like that on anything short of an all-out 18 deg head or a fully-ported big block head.

I'm not sure what's going on, but I'd check over the specifics of the test.

Larry, maybe you can chime in?

Mike