AFr 195, 210, 220???
07-25-2004, 02:33 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 180
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by Mindgame
Black95,
Galopin,
Some gearheads are still living in the stone ages too. With every passing year there are more guys laying down big numbers. With the availability and pricing of big Gen1 small blocks, 600fwhp is just so common place that guys don't even get excited anymore. Then look at all the great cylinder heads out there for the Gen1. The $ky is the limit.
-Mindgame
Galopin,
Some gearheads are still living in the stone ages too. With every passing year there are more guys laying down big numbers. With the availability and pricing of big Gen1 small blocks, 600fwhp is just so common place that guys don't even get excited anymore. Then look at all the great cylinder heads out there for the Gen1. The $ky is the limit.
-Mindgame
Exactly. The right first gen heads can put even LSx heads to shame. If you're not going to run a standard 23* head, though, be prepared to shell out some $$$.
07-25-2004, 03:03 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Scott AFB, IL
Posts: 465
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by camaro4E
I'm between what AFR head to go with. I have a 95 LT1 with the 383 bottom end. Eagle cast crank, 5.7" JE rods, and SRP 0.30 over forged pistons 10.5:1. I'm between running the 195cc, 210cc, or 220cc. I'm looking to spend 2k or less. Which ones should I run in order to make 450 to the wheels. Should I go with the race ready or competition package?Please help me out guys.
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks,
Joe
Without readin everyone else's replies, I would say that ALL three of those AFR heads could support 450 RWHP, but it is gonna be hard N/A to gegt 450 RWHP out of that 383.
07-25-2004, 03:36 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 180
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Stock 350ci LT1's put down 400-430rwhp with LE or AI heads. A 383 should be able to hit 450 no problem.
http://www.advancedinduction.com/
Over on LS1tech Futral Motorsports had a car putting over 440hp to the ground with a custom cam and some ported factory LT1 heads.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...hlight=440rwhp
I believe the guy with this car sold his heads, listing that they flowed a peak 248cfm. With better heads and a similar cam, I think there was a lot more power on the table.
http://www.advancedinduction.com/
Over on LS1tech Futral Motorsports had a car putting over 440hp to the ground with a custom cam and some ported factory LT1 heads.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...hlight=440rwhp
I believe the guy with this car sold his heads, listing that they flowed a peak 248cfm. With better heads and a similar cam, I think there was a lot more power on the table.
07-25-2004, 04:05 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Sound like good heads to me, regardless of the numbers... they're working.
I'm surprised we don't see more 420-450hp 350 builds.. although the numbers are getting better all the time. 450-475 shouldn't be a stretch for 383-396 combinations with stock heads IMO.
-Mindgame
I'm surprised we don't see more 420-450hp 350 builds.. although the numbers are getting better all the time. 450-475 shouldn't be a stretch for 383-396 combinations with stock heads IMO.
-Mindgame
07-25-2004, 04:17 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 180
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
I'd like to think that with a 396 and some AFR 195's (280cfm @ .6), 500rwhp is attainable. That's what I will be shooting for when I go stroker. I'm aiming for 430rwhp with the stock shortblock, but I need to get it on the dyno and see what it can do. It's running really rich now, which means there is some room for improvement.
07-25-2004, 04:46 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
While it may be nice to see a 396 make 500rwhp with that head I'm thinking that's a bit too optimistic. Work the port to ~300cfm and you may see that if everything else is right on the money.
-Mindgame
-Mindgame
07-25-2004, 06:08 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 2,743
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by Elysian
I'd like to think that with a 396 and some AFR 195's (280cfm @ .6), 500rwhp is attainable. . . .
Mike
07-26-2004, 10:15 AM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 180
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by engineermike
They don't flow anywhere near 280 out the box. You'd better plan on paying someone to get those flow numbers from a 195.
Mike
Mike
07-26-2004, 05:26 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 2,743
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Agreed.
To answer your question, I don't think you'd see a torque loss on a 350 with 2.08 valves. I had an 8.4/1 compression 350 with AFR 210's (2.08/1.60) in a 3rd gen that ran 11.90's at 114 at full street weight naturally aspirated. In the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Ford used a 2.25" intake valve in the original Boss 302's.
Can I recommend the 847 cam for your combo? I used that cam in the aforementioned engine and the 11.5/1 383 that followed which ran 11.0 at 122.5 mph. in the same car.
Mike
To answer your question, I don't think you'd see a torque loss on a 350 with 2.08 valves. I had an 8.4/1 compression 350 with AFR 210's (2.08/1.60) in a 3rd gen that ran 11.90's at 114 at full street weight naturally aspirated. In the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Ford used a 2.25" intake valve in the original Boss 302's.
Can I recommend the 847 cam for your combo? I used that cam in the aforementioned engine and the 11.5/1 383 that followed which ran 11.0 at 122.5 mph. in the same car.
Mike
07-27-2004, 12:38 AM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In a house by the bay
Posts: 2,985
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Oh yeah, the Boss 302... big intake valve but that's a canted valve head. You can do that when you don't have to worry about smacking the ~4" bore. 
Elysian,
I think 450-460rwhp would be a much more realistic goal for your 396 build. I wish you luck though.
-Mindgame
Elysian,
I think 450-460rwhp would be a much more realistic goal for your 396 build. I wish you luck though.
-Mindgame
07-27-2004, 07:57 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 180
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
Originally Posted by engineermike
Agreed.
To answer your question, I don't think you'd see a torque loss on a 350 with 2.08 valves. I had an 8.4/1 compression 350 with AFR 210's (2.08/1.60) in a 3rd gen that ran 11.90's at 114 at full street weight naturally aspirated. In the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Ford used a 2.25" intake valve in the original Boss 302's.
Can I recommend the 847 cam for your combo? I used that cam in the aforementioned engine and the 11.5/1 383 that followed which ran 11.0 at 122.5 mph. in the same car.
Mike
To answer your question, I don't think you'd see a torque loss on a 350 with 2.08 valves. I had an 8.4/1 compression 350 with AFR 210's (2.08/1.60) in a 3rd gen that ran 11.90's at 114 at full street weight naturally aspirated. In the grand scheme of things, keep in mind that Ford used a 2.25" intake valve in the original Boss 302's.
Can I recommend the 847 cam for your combo? I used that cam in the aforementioned engine and the 11.5/1 383 that followed which ran 11.0 at 122.5 mph. in the same car.
Mike
Mindgame: Quite honestly, if I had a H/C swap to do again, I would probably get some BRODIX 15* heads converted to reverse cooling. I got their new catalog and they have some heads with a ~230cc runner flowing 325cfm out of the box. Do some hand porting on those puppies and get a sheet metal intake made and I would think you should be able to make some pretty good power. It strikes me that if LT1 guys could more easily take advantage of GEN 1 parts, LS1 guys would have nothing special to bragg about.
07-27-2004, 08:06 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 2,743
Re: AFr 195, 210, 220???
The 190's and 195's that Thunder Racing has flowed all came out around 230 - 240 cfm, so your 280 is especially good for a 195. David at Thunder had his 190's ported by GTP and they did around 280 also.
I think the "stall out" you're seeing at 280 - 290 cfm is inherent to a 23 deg standard port location head. If you talk to anyone who flows alot of heads on state-of-the-art equipment, you'll find that a true 300+ cfm 23 deg standard port head is EXTREMELY rare.
Mike
I think the "stall out" you're seeing at 280 - 290 cfm is inherent to a 23 deg standard port location head. If you talk to anyone who flows alot of heads on state-of-the-art equipment, you'll find that a true 300+ cfm 23 deg standard port head is EXTREMELY rare.
Mike