Edelbrock? LoL, I dont know who would go to them for that kind of power, they cater to more OTC type stuff IMO, not big power people.

There are bigger heads, and there is always more RPM, if you have the money and dont mind losing the bottom end. 600+ CFM has been done.

 

Why does the road racer in the group quote Mark Donahue?

Good quote.

I'm with Dr Mudge, don't test me, it might be done.

Rich is right, gotta hold the power and the TQ to get it to the road.

As for the Hot Rod 565, it was for a boat so he ran some high compression since his coolant is always really low. I think thye tested that bad boy on the dyno with 120deg H2O temps. You could run a 13:1 BBC with those tiny chambers on pump gas easy then.

Bret

 

I am not saying I would do it, or that anyone would want to do it. But I do believe it might be possible with the Arao heads, a big displacement small block, and really high rpm!

As I said before, the Honda S2000 is a street motor making 2hp/ci. A 430ci motor would need to be at 2.3hp/ci for 1000hp. That's my basis for assuming it's possible. The potential flaw in my logic is that the valve area/displacement is more favorable iwth the large bore S2000 than with the small block. So let's agree to disagree, recognizing that no one we know is going to try it and prove one of us wrong!

Rich Krause

 

My $.02

500 inch Pro Stock engines are quite probably at the current peak of NA, gasoline, pushrod technology, at least for 6-8 seconds of life. If you could get the same power/cube as a 1305 hp PS'r, you could do the 1000 ponies with a 383.

I'm with Rich; possible, but not very likely. Those with enough money to develop such an engine wouldn't be bothered.

Re: M. Donahue: if you haven't read The Unfair Advantage, the improved edition with Paul Van Valkenburgh, give it a go. Great book. Bentley Publishers has it.

 

The S2000 makes 120bhp/liter, probably the most efficient engine in a street car to date. Using a 350ci SBC, 5.7L, 120bhp/liter would put you close to 700hp. The big problem with making this sort of power in a totally street setup SBC is the valvetrain. The Honda has VTEC...two completely different camshaft profiles. Below about 5800 RPM, the DOHC setup works as it normally would, the camshafts riding on top of the rocker arms, right above the valves. Above that RPM, a third rocker arm between each pair of normal rocker arms (remember, 4v/cyl) is engaged, using a piston that slides out and locks it into place. A thrid, nuch larger lobe on the camshaft then activates this rocker and drastically increases the duration and lift (the japanese civic type R camshafts are 243/235*duration @ .050 for a 1.6L motor!!!) and the engine screams to an 8500RPM redline. This enables them to use a huge camshaft while retaining a silky smooth idle and bottom end. With the DOHC geometry, there is less inertia in the valvetrain, and less issues at higher RPM (valvesprings, etc.). If Chevrolet would catch on, displacements on Camaro and Corvette engines could be decreased, increasing fuel economy, and still have 300-500hp on tap higher in the RPM range. Not that there's anything wrong with the current line of LS6, LS1s, or the previous 302-454 offerings. I love 'em all.

 

Aren't there some canted valve $$$ SBC na chevies making close to 1khp? was thinking I read about a 9XX one..

 

Well, I'll add my two cents in here. First off, Dr. Mudge, the new Edelbrock/Chapman heads are some of the best in-line valve heads available at this time. Check out www.chapmanracingheads.com Check out the Edelbrock 15 degree drag heads. They flow over 400 cfm, and Chapman is well-known not to overstate flow numbers. If you don't believe me, call him. He's a class act.

Second, I think there is a misunderstanding about the subject here. I think the subject was "Is it possible to make 1,000 horsepower with a small block ON PUMP GAS". That's the trick. All the comparisons to Pro Stock and Pro Stock Truck go out the window when dealing with pump gas. It just ain't going to happen with today's technology and small block parts availability. I mean, Pro Stock Truck was about the cutting edge of small block, N/A power production and they were getting about 950-980 hp. They might have reached the magic 4-digit number, but again, that's with 17-18:1 compression. Pump gas is just not going to work!!

I agree with what Rich is saying, that with enough R&D it MIGHT be possible (variable valve timing, pnuematic valve springs, 4 or 5 valves per cylinder). But what I think Wicked was trying to say is that on PUMP GAS, and with today's technology, it just isn't possible. And, based on that, I would have to agree.

Shane

 

good point but pro stock truck was limited to 355 ci right? Now if you give them another 100 cubes?? you would still be hard pressed to get it on pump gas and iam sure it would not be streetable.

 

Nope, Mazda rotary, 1.3L 163 HP.

 

there are canted valve small block heads but you will have to turn the motor really high RPM's and have lots of compression to make 1000 horsepower, you can make 1000 horsepower w/a small block with all the good pieces but with low enough compression to run pump gas, no...

also, about the S2000 making 2.whatever per inch, you cant just say add 4 cyls and build a small block with same bore and stroke and expect the same power per cube because the bigger the motor you build, the less efficient it will be...making 2.0 per cube with a small block and especially a big block is definately not gonna be a streetable motor...

 

I'm surprised no one has brought up a diesel motor??? Would'nt it be possible????

93Z Will

 

Why diesel exactly? I dont know that for the additional "fun" and probable expense of such a project, that the higher octane fuel and higher compression would really net that much in gain, I could well be wrong though.

If not diesel there is always 100 octane or better, but then again that is when I stop calling it a street setup. There are cars with 13.0:1 that can be considered as such by thier owners, but if I need expensive, and harder to find gas for that little bit of edge, I dont call it street, but thats just an opinion.

 

1.3L Rotary?
you mean 3.9L


well sorda. you can't compare displacement of a rotary to a piston motor... its just not the same

 

RX7 was a 1.3L engine, its TINY, 2 rotor and 1.3L. People do string them together, I've heard of a 6 rotor which would be a 3.9L which would be about 490 HP

Friction goes up with more surface area contact yes, but since the power is going up as well I dont see any effect from it. If you string 2 engines together will power double? Well I dont know about that, I would think close but not quite, longer crank etc is not going to be the best either, but these things have been done (the 777 cube small blocks putting out 1250ish HP, 2 V8s).

There is also again the Coates Spherical Rotary Valve stuff, if its really as legit as they claim it to be. Sure would be nice to play with, I think thats one of the most interesting things to me as far as an exotic setup as far as a top end goes.

 

what he meant was that rotaries have 3 combustion cycles per revolution
though v8's have 4 cylinders firing per rev, sorta like half displacement?

well anyway, yes its hard to compare rotaries to piston engines
you'd have to boil it down to the torque that each combustion exerts on the crank and how many torque actions per second...

they do burn as much fuel as a 3.9l by the way, maybe more :P

my response to the original question is that ya it oughta be possible, difficult with 632ci, easier with over 700

as for small block, i say now
if you make one all the way at 450 cubes or so, rev's are severely limited and so is hp

i regard jim lab's super lt1 engine to be about the limit of a street engine small block
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...0&pagenumber=1
you can read about it there
he hits 100bhp/l on a 6.5l/396 lt1 engine

he might have been able to do slightly better (and have streetability) if it wasnt based around lt1 style heads, but not significantly better

if you assume 100bhp/l is also possible with a big block (small heads not being overburdened by displacement) then ya the 632 could do it