Sorry, I am still not seeing what "penalties" you are referring to. It looks like the LS3, especially with AFM, could get the same mileage (or at least within 1 mpg) as the 3.6 V6 in the Malibu/CT-S -- let alone the L76 -- so I am not sure what "penalty" you are referring to as far as mileage goes.

As far as insurance is concerned, I think they just up the rates for a V8 -- not by hp, so I would expect rates to be the same for an LS3 or a L76. After all, 350hp is more than enough to get you into trouble.

Finally, I don't know the production costs, but it is more than likely the LS3 costs just about the same as the L76 (or very similar), so that might not even effect pricing in a noticeable way.

In short, I am still not convinced there will be any "penalty" for the LS3 over the L76.

Now, if they came out with a derivative of the L76 that was significantly cheaper and got significantly better mileage, I would agree with you. But, as it stands now, I am not seeing it (though I could be wrong).

However, this does illustrate what makes building this car SO difficult for GM. They have to appeal to a very wide range of buyers, all who want different things -- from the looks-only buyer, to the "just the right amount of hp" buyer, to the "ever hp you can squeeze" buyer -- all who want better quality than they want to/can pay for. It is certainly a very difficult line to walk, and there is no way to please everyone.

 

You're absolutely right -- there could be a completely undeveloped demographic out there. But, if you were GM, would you build a car for a target you know exists, or a potential demographic you hope is there.

The Aztec comes to mind as reason not to build something and hope the consumers get your concept -- albeit an extreme one at that.

While, as an enthusiast, I really wish they would build a cheap, performance-oriented V6, I just don't see the market for it right now. However, if they can hit all the other targets (looks, practicality, quality interior, price) AND build the performance as well (a very tall order, for sure), I think it could help shift the market a bit and get people thinking about performance and the fun of driving again. But, you have to hit the main issues first.

After all, the slow death of the manual transmission should be an indication that the enthusiast population is shrinking every day. Ironically, they also seem to be getting more intense about their enthusiasm as well. Which brings us back to the problem of building a car to suit a very diverse audience.

 

I would put in a v6 that would target my demographic that is already established, and could possibly tap an unrepresented. The 3.6 would give the v6 owner's that couldn't care less about performance the fuel economy and smooth driving mannerisms they will likely care about, but also the performance for someone who might want that in a v6.

 

I just read trough 2 engine threads and i must say that i'm just about to cry

Of course GM is having a hard time pleasing everybody. There are many types of consumers to satisfy and my opinion is just one opinion.

I would GREATLY prefer a 250hp V8 over a 300hp V6 on steroids. Having a V8 is a standing, a privilege, a honor. Having a V6 is just "i couldn't afford the V8". And i wouldn't wanna be the pour soul to announce "Ok it's a 6 but it's the big one, really it performs".

Maybe that doesn't make sense to any of you, but having the sound and torque behavior of a small block V8 just seals the deal for me.

i must say that if they only offer 2 V6 and one pricey V8, i might just wait and buy a used one to swap a capable engine in it.

 

Or...it's "I don't want to /can't pay insurance, and gas prices of a V8".
I like V8's too. But there's nothing wrong with a good and powerful V6. it's just us crazies who like the V8's.

 

Might take a look at production/sales numbers back in the 70s when the Camaro was selling near 280k units a year. The majority of sales was the smaller V8 engine cars. 36,982 6-cyl, 235,649 V8 with 55,000 Z28. I think the V6 cars would not appeal to the enthusiasts so no real need for a hi-po version here. A Sport Coupe six cylinder, an RS with a 5.3L V8 (300hp there folks), and the fire breathing Z28 for the serious performance people.

 

Only one problem with the 5.3. Do you like your Camaro's FWD?

 

What does a 5.3 have to do with a nonexistent FWD Camaro?

 

I'm right there with you...I mean come on is not like it cannot be done...because i'm pretty sure it can be done...This is how I See it...

V6---300hpish $25K
Base V8 ---400hpish $30K
Top Dawg V8 Z28/SS---500hpish $35K <<<Likely doubt that being the price on the top dawg though...

And I say release only the V6 And the base V8 for the first year and see how it does...And then release the Top Dawg the year after As An SS And/Or A Z28...

That's my 2 cents on that...

 

No need, its already been stated in this thread that a V8 will be available at entry and the "top dog" V8 later on which makes perfect sense. Forget the G8's motor, I think its almost a guarentee that an LSx based motor will be the basis for both of Camaro's V8's with probably an LS3 variant at entry and I'd guess something like the LS8 down the road. And I'd say the LS3 more than qualifies as "capable".

Also offering the top model a year or so after Camaro's entry is essential IMO. You have to keep interest up for the car during the model generation run. And releasing a powerful heavy hitter a year after intro not only would sell the hard hitting model but would also give a sales splash to the whole model line along with generating interest. Offering all the models at once during intro would be a foolish business decision.

And I'm glad to hear GM is looking at 2 V6's again. Covers two different crowds and gives more Camaros at steady different price points to choose from.

 

Read jg's and Z284evers posts on the first 3 pages and I think they have a very good view on what we're most likely to see as far as model lineup goes:


Perf V6
Entry V8 (LS3 or newer replacement)
Top V8 (maybe LS8 being LSA is Caddy's and LS9 is handbuilt limited prod)

Only thing I'd add is a base V6 model with less than 300hp as the entry level Camaro with the new talk of 2 V6's. I'd say 4 models all at different power points and price points is a very solid lineup.

 

I'm fairly optimistic the 260 hp 3.6 VVT will be the standard V6 engine. If they go with the 3.5 or 3.9 I'd be rather dissapointed. Neither of those engines belong in a Camaro, even in base form. Besides, the 3.6 is officially replacing the 3800 as GM's premire V6 engine accross all lines as of next year (3800 production is ceasing). Following that logic, the 3800 was the base V6 for 1998-2002, hence the 3.6 should be the base for 5th gens.

 

Nothing, really. I was just being smart. The only 5.3 V8 GM is producing right now would be the LS4, The Impala's FWD V8. So as it stands, it wouldn't work in the Camaro. That's all I was referencing.

 

The 5.3 is used in Chevy Silverados and has been for years. Aluminum and iron block versions with AFM.

 

What?! Wow.....I have no idea how I missed that one. That was dumb - sorry.

Though, I still can't see those being used. They've got les power than the 2002's...