More than one V8 in the first year?
09-14-2007, 01:14 AM
#16
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I've never considered GT500, as a regular Mustang, the top-end "mainstream" Mustang, to me, is their GT premium...
GT500, would be territory for, like, a Foose, or some other limited production Camaro.
And though I agree it might be advantageous to GM to offer a hugely powerful Hp Camaro...it won't be the LS7(I've thought that for a while, and even Mr. Settlemire 'confirmed' it), and there has been no confirmation that I've seen that either competing car has a 500+hp engine planned for release. I could have missid that, though.
even as it is. If you consider GT500 to be just anther trim Mustang, then take into account it didn't release in the Mustang's first year.
"Buisnessly" (is that a word?) speaking, it's probably not such a good idea to offer too many engines...just 1 V8 would spread costs across a much larger amount of engines, then two diff. motors. V6's don't matter as much because the chances that the V6's they use are in multiple other vehicles, is high.
There are soooo many pro's and con's in either direction (1 V8, or 2), that I have no idea which I think will likely happen...I don't mind not knowing, though - I'm looking forward to being surprised. I want this car to still hold a 'wow' factor for me, not a "yep, I told ya so" feeling.
GT500, would be territory for, like, a Foose, or some other limited production Camaro.
And though I agree it might be advantageous to GM to offer a hugely powerful Hp Camaro...it won't be the LS7(I've thought that for a while, and even Mr. Settlemire 'confirmed' it), and there has been no confirmation that I've seen that either competing car has a 500+hp engine planned for release. I could have missid that, though.
even as it is. If you consider GT500 to be just anther trim Mustang, then take into account it didn't release in the Mustang's first year.
"Buisnessly" (is that a word?) speaking, it's probably not such a good idea to offer too many engines...just 1 V8 would spread costs across a much larger amount of engines, then two diff. motors. V6's don't matter as much because the chances that the V6's they use are in multiple other vehicles, is high.
There are soooo many pro's and con's in either direction (1 V8, or 2), that I have no idea which I think will likely happen...I don't mind not knowing, though - I'm looking forward to being surprised. I want this car to still hold a 'wow' factor for me, not a "yep, I told ya so" feeling.
09-14-2007, 09:56 PM
#17
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The Mustang is planned for a increase in power on or around 2010 the last I heard.
I don't think you will see too much in V8 options but I feel you will see a steady progress in technology that will increase power and improve economy.
The only reason I think there will be 2 V6 engines is that Scott said there is a market for the lower powered engine [secretary's cars per say]. It would be fore someone who wants a sporty car with no need or care for overwhelming power.
The performance V6 is lighter more economical and will provide better insurance prices. It has the best of both worlds power and economy for the daily drivers of the world> Lets face it a V6 with 4th gen SS power would be very popular. The 3.6 is the new Small block as it will power everything from Chevy to Caddy.
The V8 will be there for those who demand it for daily use or for the weekend play car to enjoy.
I see the engines lined up with how ever many models are offered . The Top V8 for the Z28, the standard V8 for the SS
The V6 for the base and more upscale non SS car {name unknow].
Most of Chevys other car do not offer many engine options. 1-3 look like all most see. 3.5-3.6 and V8 have been used in most larger cars where the Ecotech and Ecotech Turbo/SC are the others.
Keeping it simple keeps it cheaper. all are great engines and deliver more than enough power to satify most people. I think the day like in the 60's where 5-6 Engines per line are long over.
I don't think you will see too much in V8 options but I feel you will see a steady progress in technology that will increase power and improve economy.
The only reason I think there will be 2 V6 engines is that Scott said there is a market for the lower powered engine [secretary's cars per say]. It would be fore someone who wants a sporty car with no need or care for overwhelming power.
The performance V6 is lighter more economical and will provide better insurance prices. It has the best of both worlds power and economy for the daily drivers of the world> Lets face it a V6 with 4th gen SS power would be very popular. The 3.6 is the new Small block as it will power everything from Chevy to Caddy.
The V8 will be there for those who demand it for daily use or for the weekend play car to enjoy.
I see the engines lined up with how ever many models are offered . The Top V8 for the Z28, the standard V8 for the SS
The V6 for the base and more upscale non SS car {name unknow].
Most of Chevys other car do not offer many engine options. 1-3 look like all most see. 3.5-3.6 and V8 have been used in most larger cars where the Ecotech and Ecotech Turbo/SC are the others.
Keeping it simple keeps it cheaper. all are great engines and deliver more than enough power to satify most people. I think the day like in the 60's where 5-6 Engines per line are long over.
09-14-2007, 10:52 PM
#18
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Well said! 
09-15-2007, 01:41 PM
#19
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I am happy to hear that it sounds like GM is still on course with the 2 v6 engine idea. Having a relatively cheap, 300hp v6 as an option is a great idea. We already know the base v8 is going to bring plenty of power to the table, it is good to hear a v6 will as well.
09-15-2007, 06:58 PM
#20
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Clyde
Last edited by wildpaws; 09-15-2007 at 07:07 PM.
09-15-2007, 07:44 PM
#21
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Actually if you count the different HP ratings for the same CID engines, there were often more than 5-6 different engines. Camaro in 1969 had two RPO 6 cylinder engines, eight RPO 8 cylinder engines, plus there were three more that I think were limited production/special order 8 cylinder engines. Lots of choices back then!
Clyde
Clyde
Today you can't even delete power windows and door locks due to cost restraints. GM is going to have a good core group of engines that will take care of most any needs of 98% of the buyers.
The truth is in todays market and so many model line there is no needs for a large drivetrain selection anymore. In days past say in 1955 one car had to be all things to all people because they only offered one car model in wagon, sedan or coupe. The drivetrain made up for the lack of models.
Besides the cost of getting cerification for goverment regs has to be through the roof anymore added to the development cost of the engine it's self. Just the cost of California CARB board is bad enough.
Last edited by hyperv6; 09-15-2007 at 07:46 PM.
10-02-2007, 05:14 PM
#23
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According to a recent issue of Road and Track, you can or will soon be able to obtain an unwarrantied Mustang called Super Snake, with 725 HP from the factory. Google can tell you more, but Ford isnt pulling their punches.
10-16-2007, 11:14 AM
#24
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It will be interesting to see how much power chevy will bring to the 5th gen camaro. I agree with an earlier comment. The vette will always have the upper hand on more powerfull V-8s. It would kill the vette market to have a camaro with more hp than the vette. And in turn hurt chevy's market in the long run. The vette is here to stay. The camaro on the otherhand has a unknown future. It is obvious that chevy is marketing the camaro and building up the anticipation. Why??? To sell a sh$$$$t load of cars. Mustang has already a good market (and already and continues to make a lot of money) and thus can offer variants and selected amount of crazy hp engines--especially since companies such as Saleen has been working with them for years). Challenger is not looking to sell thousands so they are not prob. worried about the numbers as chevy. The camaro must sell or die (forever and thus forgotten). I doubt they will offer the Z28 with a choice of V-8s. More like a selection of 6s a V-8, and maybe a rare model that will not be to available.
I would be more interested in the aftermarket goodies for the camaro's engine. You can take the LS2 and do some major HP improvements to revile any aftermarket pony or challenger (and for a lost less than a possible factory 500+ HP camaro).
I would be more interested in the aftermarket goodies for the camaro's engine. You can take the LS2 and do some major HP improvements to revile any aftermarket pony or challenger (and for a lost less than a possible factory 500+ HP camaro).
10-17-2007, 09:41 AM
#25
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Just to clarify, the SRT8 Challenger will have 425hp, not 500hp.
It will be released in March/April 08. In July, the standard Challenger with the 345hp Hemi will be released, along with more SRT8 models but with a 6-speed option.
Expect the SRT8 version to be in the low $40K range with dealer markup. The price will stabilize at $39 - $40K as the year progresses and the buzz drops a bit.
At $35K, do not expect the Camaro to have anything but the 365 - 385hp G8 engine, which I believe is a variant of the LS2 but with different heads and cylinder deactivation for better gas mileage. The engine will be tuned for 87 octane, which is why the engine is underrated vs. the standard LS2. If a higher horsepower variant emerges, it will be in the low $40K range, and not be released the first year. Most likely, the engine will be based on the LS3.
It will be released in March/April 08. In July, the standard Challenger with the 345hp Hemi will be released, along with more SRT8 models but with a 6-speed option.
Expect the SRT8 version to be in the low $40K range with dealer markup. The price will stabilize at $39 - $40K as the year progresses and the buzz drops a bit.
At $35K, do not expect the Camaro to have anything but the 365 - 385hp G8 engine, which I believe is a variant of the LS2 but with different heads and cylinder deactivation for better gas mileage. The engine will be tuned for 87 octane, which is why the engine is underrated vs. the standard LS2. If a higher horsepower variant emerges, it will be in the low $40K range, and not be released the first year. Most likely, the engine will be based on the LS3.
10-17-2007, 11:05 AM
#26
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Like I said, GM needs to start out with a very loud "BANG" first year out to get more attention than the Challenger as opposed to a "pop" and just hope people notice.
Last edited by Ron78Z&01SS; 10-17-2007 at 12:30 PM.
10-17-2007, 12:39 PM
#27
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As posted on Autoblog:
"OntarioStreetCar reports that the Challenger arrives in March as a 2008 model. That first run of 5500 cars will all be 6.1L SRT8s equipped with automatic transmissions priced at $38,000. Starting in July, the MY09 Challenger will begin production, and the range will expand to include the 3.5L V6, the regular 5.7L HEMI, and of course, the SRT8 with the 6.1 HEMI. And finally, the best news of all: on the '09 Challenger, both HEMI flavors will be available with the T56 6-speed manual transmission."
The V8 in the G8 is called L76. It's basically an LS2 block, L92 heads, and L76 intake. Personally, this engine has potential. With cam and exhaust work, this engine can easily be made to produce over 450hp, as the LS2 crowd has been doing this with this parts already. The reason GM needs the L76 is gas mileage. Since it uses Active Fuel Management (cylinder deactivation) it is more frugal than your typical V8.
"OntarioStreetCar reports that the Challenger arrives in March as a 2008 model. That first run of 5500 cars will all be 6.1L SRT8s equipped with automatic transmissions priced at $38,000. Starting in July, the MY09 Challenger will begin production, and the range will expand to include the 3.5L V6, the regular 5.7L HEMI, and of course, the SRT8 with the 6.1 HEMI. And finally, the best news of all: on the '09 Challenger, both HEMI flavors will be available with the T56 6-speed manual transmission."
The V8 in the G8 is called L76. It's basically an LS2 block, L92 heads, and L76 intake. Personally, this engine has potential. With cam and exhaust work, this engine can easily be made to produce over 450hp, as the LS2 crowd has been doing this with this parts already. The reason GM needs the L76 is gas mileage. Since it uses Active Fuel Management (cylinder deactivation) it is more frugal than your typical V8.
10-19-2007, 03:35 PM
#28
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At $35K, do not expect the Camaro to have anything but the 365 - 385hp G8 engine, which I believe is a variant of the LS2 but with different heads and cylinder deactivation for better gas mileage. The engine will be tuned for 87 octane, which is why the engine is underrated vs. the standard LS2. If a higher horsepower variant emerges, it will be in the low $40K range, and not be released the first year. Most likely, the engine will be based on the LS3.
10-21-2007, 06:50 PM
#29
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I'd be happy with ....
Base - 300HP V6
SS - 366HP L76 V8
Z28 - 436HP LS3
Z28 could start at $34,995 which would blow the GT500 away as far as value goes. Hopefully the Z28 would be 200lbs. lighter than the GT500 also.
Base - 300HP V6
SS - 366HP L76 V8
Z28 - 436HP LS3
Z28 could start at $34,995 which would blow the GT500 away as far as value goes. Hopefully the Z28 would be 200lbs. lighter than the GT500 also.
Last edited by Z28x; 10-21-2007 at 06:52 PM.
