And that's the whole point. There are lots of little things beyond power to weight which makes a car great to drive. Things you should benchmark.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure sounds like you're saying that the Camaro SS will be within 2.7% of the M3's handling ability and feel, based on power to weight. Are you saying that?

 

I said the weight, if the Camaro weighs 100lbs more than the M3, wil be within 2.7% of the M3's weight

the handling ability depends on much more.. suspension setup, and tuning... wheel/tire size/width..

so, no, i'm not giving a specific number as to how close the handling will be between the two cars, i'm merely stating that they will be very close, to the point where the majority of people won't be able to tell the difference

I find it interesting that you are gushing over a 3650lb car like the 08 M3.. based on past posts i'd assume you would think that's too heavy

 

Lighter is always better, but if the Z/28 comes in at 3650 lbs, I'll kiss the ground.

BTW, the 300 lbs lighter 135 I drove today was also fantastic. Probably 8/10ths the car the M3 was. I wonder what an M version would drive like.

 

I am serious and I'm glad my opinion caught a couple of you off guard. The spirit of a 1st Gen Z28 shouldn't be building the same car over again. It should be applying the same out of the box thinking that was applied in 1967 that got winning results. You can compare power to weight ratios all day long but the fact of the matter is you have to put that power to the ground and computer controlled AWD is going to be the way you'll see that getting done on into the future.

 

FWIW - I've never said an ideal Z/28 shouldn't drive like one, I've merely said they are "too small" for my tastes, and the T.C.O. (Total Cost of Ownership) places the M3 in a different stratosphere.

I do have two questions for you:

1) What was the sticker with Dealer Mark-up/Prep added? (Around here they're $70k+)

2) Is BMW's 3-year free maintenance plan included? (If not, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole.)

 

I understand what you are saying, Z28.............. but I don't believe that many here will. Unless they go out, and drive an M3 at, or close to the limit.

It's not just about numbers............... it is much deeper than that. The relationship of driver to car. The nuances of feel of the controls. The instinctive feel of exactly how the chassis is reacting to imput.......... no matter how minute. Numbers on paper cannot even come close to telling you how a car really "handles."

I really do get it.

The problem that I have with "benchmarking" the Camaro to the M3, is that you are seriously handicapped to start with. You have a much larger car to start with. You do not have the novelty of using exotic materials in the suspension, steering, or chassis.......... thus, you do not get the fine feel that you have with such. This is as much a matter of cost, as anything. Given a Z06 budget, they could probably make a Z28 M3............. but if you cut $20-30K out of it, you will get a compromise. The car will handle good, there is no doubt of that. However, nothing short of witchcraft will make it have that M3 "feel."

Now, to those who want to come in here and slam me as being a Ford fan............ whatever. I guess the '68 L78 Camaro SS that I have in my backyard does not qualify me as a Camaro enthusiast. I have, however, test driven a great deal of very expensive cars (a hobby), and I can definitally understand where Z28 is coming from.

The new Camaro will be good. How good............ well, I guess that will just remain to be seen. We can hypothicize till the car comes out, and we will all be wrong.

Oh, a question I have.............. since many keep bringing up the G8, to show how great the suspension will be on the Camaro. Didn't GM already say that they are having to dumb it down a bit, to meet the price point they want in the Camaro. In other words, heavier suspension components (cheaper castings) and such? Not trying to slam, just trying to remember. I read so much, that sometimes it just blurs together. LOL

 

No dealer added mark-up. And the 4 yr/50,000 mile maintenance program is included.

 

Charlie:






You've got to be kidding............the M3 (and correct me if I'm wrong--) starts out at $56,000 ---

If we even for one second considered a Camaro at $45,000 -- we'd be crucified...........

I understand 'benchmarking' -- but I think we both know that we have to bring the Camaro in at an affordable price.

John Heinricy is very much involved in the new car -- I think you'll be plesantly surprised..........

 

Right, but the point is, would you rather have a car with a few K in suspension and other upgrades focusing on lightening things up, top notch shocks/springs, lightweight forged wheels, CF/lightweight body panels, etc but with 'only' 430-450hp NA. Or would you rather have 500-550hp in a nearly 2 ton car with the same old 'dumbed down' parts of the other camaros?

IMO, that's what the poll boils down to

 

Well.................the way I figure it............... replace the M3's V8 with a smallblock, and we just lowered the price $15k right there.

Just sayin'.

 

than get a vette !!!!! this is camaroz28.com not zo6/fiberglass.com j/k dont get ur radiator hose in a knot.... 80)

 

Cool ... definitely more "peace of mind" from reading that .

 

So I guess the top dog is gonna be $44k. LOL, I'm assuming just under $40k for the top Camaro. Hopefully it can bypass the gas tax unlike the GT500.

 

Some here get it. But you're probably right, many don't. And I'm not sure if that's good or bad for the Camaro. But I'll bet if everyone here could spend 20 minutes driving an M3 (or even a 135 for that matter), most would get a whole new perspective on the stuff which makes or doesn't make a car thrilling to drive.

And that's what I mean by benchmarking. How can I explain how beautifully balanced the steering on an M3 is, unless you can experience it? Or as you said, the nuances of the controls. Really, you can't.

I know that there are some good people developing the Z/28 - people I have respect for. And that's good.

I just hope that as this team continues to develop the Z/28, they'll focus it directly on those of us who will appreciate those "nuances", and not dumb it down to appeal to the strictly horsepower crowd - like the GT500 does.

I hope it's not just you and I, (and afew others), LightningGal who "get it".

I hope Chevy "gets it" too.

 

So I guess everyone that doesn't gush over the BMW just don't get it? You sound like the typical BMW driver, maybe you should go buy a BMW instead of asking Chevy to build you one. They already build what your asking for and it's the Corvette as others have said. The Camaro can never be what your expecting it to be, not for the price they need to sell it at. Look at how much the M3 weighs even with all it's ultra expensive materials. The Camaro is going to be half the price, get real.