View Poll Results: The Z/28's benchmark should be....
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The Z/28's benchmark should be.....
04-15-2008, 09:52 AM
#16
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Not the GT500, but not the M3. M3 coupe is a different creature then the Camaro.
I think the Camaro needs to have that type of fluid and precise steering, as well as solid and firm brakes, but I dont think that there is a car to bench-mark in this segment.
IMO...Camaro has always been the Benchmark. Look at Mustang...they finally caught up in 2005, sort of.
I think the Camaro needs to have that type of fluid and precise steering, as well as solid and firm brakes, but I dont think that there is a car to bench-mark in this segment.
IMO...Camaro has always been the Benchmark. Look at Mustang...they finally caught up in 2005, sort of.
04-15-2008, 10:28 AM
#17
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The only reason the GT500 is so popular is because it has Shelby on it, honestly, take Shelby off the car and make it a regular Cobra and it wouldn't be making the money it is for Ford, speculators are the only people I see buying them. 10 minutes after they get one they go log on to SVTPerformance forums and ask what the car would be worth if Shelby died, seriously it's like one a week posting that ****.
04-15-2008, 11:28 AM
#18
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The Z/28 should benchmark the CLK63 AMG Black Series.
Higher power, aggressive suspension, lower weight than the regular AMG version, a focus on performance over luxury....
Oh, and yeah. WIDEBODY kit.
http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/C/k/ny...63amgblack.jpg
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...g_black_series
Easily the most bad-*** thing in the coupe segment. It might be ultra expensive and exclusive, but it does indeed blow the hell out of the new M3.
If it were THAT good I wouldn't mind if it came in at 3900lbs like the AMG.
Higher power, aggressive suspension, lower weight than the regular AMG version, a focus on performance over luxury....
Oh, and yeah. WIDEBODY kit.
http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/C/k/ny...63amgblack.jpg
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...g_black_series
Easily the most bad-*** thing in the coupe segment. It might be ultra expensive and exclusive, but it does indeed blow the hell out of the new M3.
If it were THAT good I wouldn't mind if it came in at 3900lbs like the AMG.
Last edited by boxerperson; 04-15-2008 at 11:36 AM.
04-15-2008, 12:12 PM
#22
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Don't know much about the Black, do you? Read the links. They stripped the luxury out of it and lost over 100 pounds, even though they added bigger wheels and a widebody kit.
04-15-2008, 12:27 PM
#23
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.
Just saying, while we may all agree that the Camaro was/is the better performance "value", the Camaro lacked something that the Mustang had/has?!
IMO, it actually has ZERO to do with the CAR, but more in the MARKETING 
.I'd love to benchmark all the "great" cars out there, but at the end of the day, the focus really needs to remain on a BIG piece of the pie that Mustang gets, in order to survive (sales).
04-15-2008, 12:42 PM
#24
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Luxury -
Looks pretty nice to me. The seats even have electronic controls for the side bolsters. The console has some nice carbon-fiber trim.
The Camaro isn't in the same league as this car. Power may be similar, but the similarities end there.
04-15-2008, 01:21 PM
#25
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M3 and Z/28 should never be mentioned in the same sentance. A new M3 stickers for about $70k (with mark-up). A Z/28 should sticker for around half that price. Different ballpark, different sport, apples and oranges... take your pick.
If you want a $70k Camaro, I'm sure GM could build an American M3 for you. However it wouldn't sell as well as the Camaro they are building and it wouldn't fit the mold of what a Camaro was, can and should be.
If you want a $70k Camaro, I'm sure GM could build an American M3 for you. However it wouldn't sell as well as the Camaro they are building and it wouldn't fit the mold of what a Camaro was, can and should be.
Last edited by jg95z28; 04-15-2008 at 01:28 PM.
04-15-2008, 01:34 PM
#26
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M3 and Z/28 should never be mentioned in the same sentance. A new M3 stickers for about $70k (with mark-up). A Z/28 should sticker for around half that price. Different ballpark, different sport, apples and oranges... take your pick.
If you want a $70k Camaro, I'm sure GM could build an American M3 for you. However it wouldn't sell as well as the Camaro they are building and it wouldn't fit the mold of what a Camaro was, can and should be.
If you want a $70k Camaro, I'm sure GM could build an American M3 for you. However it wouldn't sell as well as the Camaro they are building and it wouldn't fit the mold of what a Camaro was, can and should be.
I haven't driven an M3 in a long time. When I did however, I kept thinking that I wished GM could distill and bottle all of it's goodness and add it to the next Z/28, then I'd be a happy man.
And I'm not talking about creating a $56,000 Camaro either. I'm talking about the M3's essence. The way it steers and brakes. The way it's suspension responds to your every input. The way the throttle connects you to the motor. Really, it's incredible.
That's what I want from a Z/28. And the GT500 couldn't be farther away from that.
And I'm not talking about creating a $56,000 Camaro either. I'm talking about the M3's essence. The way it steers and brakes. The way it's suspension responds to your every input. The way the throttle connects you to the motor. Really, it's incredible.
That's what I want from a Z/28. And the GT500 couldn't be farther away from that.
....
Last edited by Z284ever; 04-15-2008 at 01:47 PM.
04-15-2008, 01:55 PM
#27
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Charlie, I get where you're going with this. However as I have told you numerous times in the past the M3 is just too darn small. I've owned M3s and SN95 Mustangs, I've also driven a modern GTO (on the track). Personally I could have accepted a Monaro/GTO as a Camaro replacement, but the M3 (or SN95 Mustang) is just too small and un-Camarolike for my tastes.
Furthermore, while the M3 is an incredible machine, it is not without its flaws. Its very fragile and cannot handle the abuse of a daily driver in most cases. Additionally some of its nimbleness can be attributed to the fact that exotic and lightweight materials are used to such great extent, that it reflects the price, i.e. the bottom line.
Could I personally afford a $56k to $70k Camaro? Yes. However I couldn't justify purchasing it, and most Camaro enthusiasts couldn't either. That doesn't mean GM shouldn't build a coupe to attack the M3. The Cadillac CTC-Coupe is the perfect animal to do that. However its not a Camaro, and shouldn't be... even if it shares some of the same design elements.
Furthermore, while the M3 is an incredible machine, it is not without its flaws. Its very fragile and cannot handle the abuse of a daily driver in most cases. Additionally some of its nimbleness can be attributed to the fact that exotic and lightweight materials are used to such great extent, that it reflects the price, i.e. the bottom line.
Could I personally afford a $56k to $70k Camaro? Yes. However I couldn't justify purchasing it, and most Camaro enthusiasts couldn't either. That doesn't mean GM shouldn't build a coupe to attack the M3. The Cadillac CTC-Coupe is the perfect animal to do that. However its not a Camaro, and shouldn't be... even if it shares some of the same design elements.
04-15-2008, 02:09 PM
#28
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jg, benchmarking doesn't mean making a carbon copy of something like some third rate Chinese auto company. Benchmarking means examining certain metrics which are good and applying them to your product.
I wouldn't want a Z/28 which is a clone of an M3. For one, I'd like it to have a smallblock V8. For another, I'd like it to look like a Camaro and not a BMW. I also could do without alot of the optional fluff an M3 has.
But an M3 does have an incredible "feel" which makes it special. That is what I'm talking about!
The GT500 has none of that. It's a basic big motor in a box. It handles pretty pathetically and doesn't even deliver that impressive of a 1/4 mile time. It's an underperforming pig. And if you want to talk about cost - most of those chumps who bought one the first two years it was out - paid M3 money for them.
I wouldn't want a Z/28 which is a clone of an M3. For one, I'd like it to have a smallblock V8. For another, I'd like it to look like a Camaro and not a BMW. I also could do without alot of the optional fluff an M3 has.
But an M3 does have an incredible "feel" which makes it special. That is what I'm talking about!
The GT500 has none of that. It's a basic big motor in a box. It handles pretty pathetically and doesn't even deliver that impressive of a 1/4 mile time. It's an underperforming pig. And if you want to talk about cost - most of those chumps who bought one the first two years it was out - paid M3 money for them.
04-15-2008, 02:34 PM
#29
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I have an idea of what this threads purpose is, Charlie...
But what if I took an out-of-the-box apporach?
And said that the Z/28's goal/benchmark be the class in general. As in, "Best in Class". Something that buyers would be considering, and when they take a seat in it, are blown away by the performance, the numbers, and reputation.
Imo, putting a singular vehicle in your sights is too narrow of a goal, you know?
But what if I took an out-of-the-box apporach?
And said that the Z/28's goal/benchmark be the class in general. As in, "Best in Class". Something that buyers would be considering, and when they take a seat in it, are blown away by the performance, the numbers, and reputation.
Imo, putting a singular vehicle in your sights is too narrow of a goal, you know?
04-15-2008, 02:49 PM
#30
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I have an idea of what this threads purpose is, Charlie...
But what if I took an out-of-the-box apporach?
And said that the Z/28's goal/benchmark be the class in general. As in, "Best in Class". Something that buyers would be considering, and when they take a seat in it, are blown away by the performance, the numbers, and reputation.
Imo, putting a singular vehicle in your sights is too narrow of a goal, you know?
But what if I took an out-of-the-box apporach?
And said that the Z/28's goal/benchmark be the class in general. As in, "Best in Class". Something that buyers would be considering, and when they take a seat in it, are blown away by the performance, the numbers, and reputation.
Imo, putting a singular vehicle in your sights is too narrow of a goal, you know?
To be "best in class", you still need to compare it to something.