R.i.p. Z/28
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
No offense intended, but are we supposed to? If we do, fill us in. 
We do know who Scott Settlemire is, which is why it is easy to trust what he says. If we didn't know him, we would question is words as well. Nothing personal. We just have to consider the familiarity of the source.
We do know who Scott Settlemire is, which is why it is easy to trust what he says. If we didn't know him, we would question is words as well. Nothing personal. We just have to consider the familiarity of the source.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Uh no, not all of CAFE is because of the last 1.5 years. But the NEW proposed standards HAVE come up in the last 1.5 years. The standards that are strangling automakers. Thank Nancy Peloci and her miniuns of tree hugging nut bags for trying to stifle the American auto industry.
Perhaps Scott could enlighten in a more politically correct way. Me, I don't HAVE to say nice things about that Moonbat Peloci.
Perhaps Scott could enlighten in a more politically correct way. Me, I don't HAVE to say nice things about that Moonbat Peloci.
The big 3 are spending/going to spend tens of billions of dollars on a completely different product mix and manufacturing capability. The genie is already out of the bottle here.
And for now, this all seems to match what consumers are wanting.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
CAFE is here to stay, regardless of who might be in the WH.
The big 3 are spending/going to spend tens of billions of dollars on a completely different product mix and manufacturing capability. The genie is already out of the bottle here.
And for now, this all seems to match what consumers are wanting.
The big 3 are spending/going to spend tens of billions of dollars on a completely different product mix and manufacturing capability. The genie is already out of the bottle here.
And for now, this all seems to match what consumers are wanting.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 881
From: Jacksonville Florida
Very true. A true plug in is the future. Anyone have any strong feelings on Compressed Natural Gas? From what I know, it would keep our beloved internal cumbustion and not effect horse power output. (the hp part I'm not sure about). It's cheap, its plentiful, and its AMERICAN. No import needed. I would think that would throw future MPG mandates on it's ear.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Very true. A true plug in is the future. Anyone have any strong feelings on Compressed Natural Gas? From what I know, it would keep our beloved internal cumbustion and not effect horse power output. (the hp part I'm not sure about). It's cheap, its plentiful, and its AMERICAN. No import needed. I would think that would throw future MPG mandates on it's ear.
IMHO, hydrogen fuel cells are the future. However I think they're still a ways off from replacing the ICE.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 881
From: Jacksonville Florida
Found a site about CNG (Compressed Natural Gas)
www.cngnow.com
www.cngnow.com
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 213
No offense intended, but are we supposed to? If we do, fill us in. We do know who Scott Settlemire is, which is why it is easy to trust what he says. If we didn't know him, we would question is words as well. Nothing personal. We just have to consider the familiarity of the source.
We do know who Scott Settlemire is, which is why it is easy to trust what he says. If we didn't know him, we would question is words as well. Nothing personal. We just have to consider the familiarity of the source.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 881
From: Jacksonville Florida
He is THE MAN when it comes to Camaro insider stuff. Period. His handle is Fbodfather for a reason.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 506
From: Columbia, SC
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,463
From: SoCal
My feeling is that this particular program is simply unsustainable by GM for very long. I wonder what the cost numbers are, to run the Oshawa line for 50-60,000 Camaros --- when it was built for 400,000 Zetas? Oh yeah, Zeta. I'm sure control arms, bushings, steering columns, etc, don't have the same unit cost from suppliers when you only order less than 20% of the originally planned volume.
By 2011, the most fuel sipping Camaro will be more than 5 mpg below CAFE standards. 7 MPG below the year after. 8 MPG below the year after that, and so on. That's for the V6 mind you. That's going to be a BIG problem for someone.
When Alpha comes online, it will need Chevy to give it the volume which Zeta never realized. If there is a Camaro on Alpha, GM will need to bring it quickly, for cost reasons, CAFE reasons, and consumer acceptance reasons.
Yeah, they might throw a new color on the 5th gen in meantime - I was just having some fun with those guys.
By 2011, the most fuel sipping Camaro will be more than 5 mpg below CAFE standards. 7 MPG below the year after. 8 MPG below the year after that, and so on. That's for the V6 mind you. That's going to be a BIG problem for someone.
When Alpha comes online, it will need Chevy to give it the volume which Zeta never realized. If there is a Camaro on Alpha, GM will need to bring it quickly, for cost reasons, CAFE reasons, and consumer acceptance reasons.
Yeah, they might throw a new color on the 5th gen in meantime - I was just having some fun with those guys.
It's all very plausable but I'd have to think GM thought this throught before going forward with the Camaro at Oshawa. GM is no stranger to beating up on the suppliers if they need to cut back orders by say 80% and still hold the price. The economy isn't good enough for many to say no.
CAFE is still and average across the board. IF GM feels that they will have enough fuel sipping little cars and the Volt to sell in 2011 and beyond that it can offset the Camaro/Vette then this won't be as big of a deal as it seems now. Not every vehicle sold has to have better mpg than CAFE. We both know it would be in GM's best interest for itself and the Camaro to get the mpg up as high as possible but it's not a do or die kind of option.
I thought you were being facetious about the colors....
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,463
From: SoCal
Obviously GM, the company where Scott works and the Camaro team of which he is a part of looked at these engine options for the Camaro and maybe for a Z28. The engine price of the LS7 no matter what it is was obviously deemed to be too expensive to be used. End of story. There is no debate. Rest assured that Scott wouldn't use the phrase "will make your teeth hurt" if it price difference was close. Again this goes back to knowing him. They have to look at the big picture and there is far more to this than just swapping in a LS7 under a tree in someone’s yard. Which is still a great option for those still bent on having it...
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 213
Thanks for the link - he's obviously a very knowledgeable guy. But I don't see that he's an engineer or an engine guy. Or that he's been a part of an engine operation. We have product managers at our company, too. I mean, you can compare this engine to the Viper engine or the GT engine. $16k isn't even in the ballpark...and it's crazy to say a dealership charges roughly what it costs them. The markup I've seen over the years has made me puke. I could probably guess the cost of this engine +- $500 dollars, and it's a long way from $16k.
Not being a dick or insulting anybody...just telling you my view.
Not being a dick or insulting anybody...just telling you my view.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17
Thanks for the link - he's obviously a very knowledgeable guy. But I don't see that he's an engineer or an engine guy. Or that he's been a part of an engine operation. We have product managers at our company, too. I mean, you can compare this engine to the Viper engine or the GT engine. $16k isn't even in the ballpark...and it's crazy to say a dealership charges roughly what it costs them. The markup I've seen over the years has made me puke. I could probably guess the cost of this engine +- $500 dollars, and it's a long way from $16k.
Not being a dick or insulting anybody...just telling you my view.
Not being a dick or insulting anybody...just telling you my view.
Geez, with all the production experience Scott has, and his intimate involvement with the Fourth Gen and the work on promoting the Fifth Gen, how can you say something like that. My goodness.
And Yeah I am somewhat new to this board. But I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Fair enough, but don't let your judgment be clouded, Scott doesn't make things up and he is far from your average project manager type of person at GM. I have heard people say that there is no one in GM like him and I believe it.
He's a good friend of many and many people rely on him for facts and solid data, including myself. You should try to meet him one day if you can.
No big deal, it is hard to explain how significant of a person Scott really is in the Camaro world to someone who doesn't know.
He's a good friend of many and many people rely on him for facts and solid data, including myself. You should try to meet him one day if you can.
No big deal, it is hard to explain how significant of a person Scott really is in the Camaro world to someone who doesn't know.