jg95z28

And one is actually an SS with a 305-cid race motor.

2lane69

I know what they are, I'm using '69 as a generic filler because it seems like that is the mythical unicorn the 2010's are compared to in this discussion, and my point is that they aren't as great as you wish they were. I edited my post after noticing the curb weight listing, I'll repost for your viewing pleasure:

Note the RS headlights. I see curb weight as 3220lbs. Add the cowl induction hood, the crossram with dual quads, power steering, power brakes, a radio, a few goodies and you're at 3500 before you blink. The fold down rear seat weighs 100lbs by itself. Again, I'm trying to relate a 'typical' street use car to what will be purchased today. They are about 500lbs apart. Considering the infinite improvements in safety and comfort, this is a small price to pay.

jg95z28

Actually in this particular race (Bryar Motorsport Park, NH 8-6-67) that Porsche, driven by Bert Everett, won the under 2-liter class. (Although Camaros and Porsches raced together, the were in different classes.)

The Camaro, driven by Johnny Moore, is actually production Z/28 #1. It is currently owned by Jon Mello and is undergoing restoration.
http://www.1967z28.com/gallery/fullr...moore-main.htm

CLEAN

Would we all be happy if they just put the new Z28 suspension/steering on a 1SS w/ an LS3/L99 and called THAT a Z28, then call the new F/I car a SS/SC or ZL1 or something? Wouldn't be unlike the lineup from the 60s...Z28/SS350/SS396. Z28 would be as no frills as you can get, best handling Camaro. SS would get all the bells and whistles w/ a bit more liveable suspension, F/I car would be the top dog performer in a straight line, as well as a very close 2nd in handling.

2lane69

That is very interesting, and it is a cool picture BTW.

jg95z28

NO WE ALL WOULD NOT BE HAPPY.

Unless it has an aluminum big block, no modern Camaro should EVER be called ZL1!

2lane69

I could get past it if it was 427ci and aluminum. Nobody will ever be completely happy, that much we can all agree on.

Doug Harden

Fine, some of you couch racers want to know that some of us actually do what we say?

Here's my latest Camaro in action, I've owned dozens of them...compare that to your XBox reality....



And at 52, I still do this on the weekends.... not exaclty a Wii world for me...



Now answer me this....which car is more relevant to TODAY's world.........a 4,100# overweight, understeering, straight line, one trick pony that costs damned near what a world class Corvette does.....or a lean, more than adequately powered, corner carver that only sells for $5k+ more than a fully loaded SS, that not only get's better mileage, but isn't panned by every critic for being a total waste of GM's precious few dollars??

SSbaby

2lane69

It's pointless arguing with someone who won't listen.

Goooolley, universal pictures and some exaggerations - I never knew a picture showing relative positions was the definitive measure for weight and performance.

Ohhh, these amateur would be racers!

Z284ever

Yeah I know, Jeff.

I always like this pic though...

jg95z28

I'd certainly like to see GM build a modern-day interpretation of the L30/M20 Camaro. Most of you probably never heard of it, however in 1967-8 you could order RPO L30 (275hp, 327 4bbl) and M20 4-speed. You also got a 12-bolt rear end. It was the total sleeper performance Camaro of its day.

http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml

However as we have all heard in the past, in today's world stripper cars simply do not sell in the numbers needed to be profitable, so most manufacturers don't build them.

Personally, I'd rather see Z/28 get ram-air induction and a nastier NA Gen IV/V (Perhaps the new Corvette 5.3L Gen V). The LSA Camaro could simply be called Camaro SS Supercharged. (Heck even back in the day the SS came in several different flavors.) However as long as this car gets some suspension upgrades to go along with the LSA, I'd be happy enough to purchase one.

jg95z28

Nice color combo Doug!

Here's mine.

2lane69

Sure, I'd love the new Z/28 to have a carbon fiber roof aka M3 CSL, and a carbon hood and decklid, carbon ZR1 brakes, a 505hp Z06 mill would do the job, no back seats, sticky tires and 18lb wheels. But, that's not what we're getting.

Apparently GM sees a market for, as Doug would say 'a 4,100# overweight, understeering, straight line, one trick pony that costs damned near what a world class Corvette does' ....and apparently their #1 competitor does as well with the GT500.

Regardless of how you feel, or what YOU want, GM is making this car to compete with the GT500. End of story. They don't NEED a lightweight car. They already have the Z06's, and the reality is there is no lightweight competitor. This is a business, afterall.

Z28Wilson

I think the real point is not to compare 1969 to 2010 but to compare 2010 to 2010.

In the comparison of 2010 to 2010, Mustang is already outpacing Camaro in handling in virtually every magazine article you can possibly reference. It's also nipping at its heels in acceleration on the street (1/4 mile is a different story, I know). Is it just the fact that Camaro is 300+ pounds heavier or is it more than that? Better question is do the reasons even matter at this point?

As I said, maybe, just maybe, Chevrolet can pull out a miracle and make this Z28 accelerate, stop and handle with the best cars in the world for 1/2 their price. I guess we'll have to wait and see. But the precident that has been set isn't overly promising - you're already playing #2 to your direct competition.

Doug Harden

So they should always play 'follow' the leader'?!? Let Ford decide their product planning?!?

Answer my questions....

Dumbest waste of limited resources I've seen......