NEWS: GM Reportedly Calls "Game On" For Supercharged 550HP Camaro Z/28
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 233
I fixed it so that no one would be offended, which I'm suprised you were. Hater is a generic term for someone who doesnt like something, not an expression of genuine HATE, jeezz.
And I understand perfectly what the concerns are, I really do. But to sit here and think that decisions were consiously made by GM engineers that they would forgo any weight savings oportunities they had, given their budget, and instead going forth w/ a plan that was as unwinnable as you guys seem to think it is, is nothing more than a slap in the face to the men and women who made this car happen.
One thing I believe about the people that made this car, I think its the best they could do given the constraints of time and money. Am I happy about the weight? NO. Am I happy w/ the size? NO. Heck, I'm not even happy w/ the cost, but no one seems to fuss about that anymore. Do I like the interior? Didnt like it in the concept, don't like it in production. However I'm not going to be so stupid to think that they left ANYTHING on the table that they could have done differently in terms of size, weight, or cost (again, given the constraints of time and budget).
And Doug, I'm right w/ you on the last part. No matter how many times they tell me it wouldn't work, I'd rather have an LS7 than an LSA. I'd rather have a vintage Lemans blue over either of the 2 current offerings, and I don't need the do-dads either.
My point is, how many people here would let their wallets do the talking, assuming the biggest complaint was addressed?
And I understand perfectly what the concerns are, I really do. But to sit here and think that decisions were consiously made by GM engineers that they would forgo any weight savings oportunities they had, given their budget, and instead going forth w/ a plan that was as unwinnable as you guys seem to think it is, is nothing more than a slap in the face to the men and women who made this car happen.
One thing I believe about the people that made this car, I think its the best they could do given the constraints of time and money. Am I happy about the weight? NO. Am I happy w/ the size? NO. Heck, I'm not even happy w/ the cost, but no one seems to fuss about that anymore. Do I like the interior? Didnt like it in the concept, don't like it in production. However I'm not going to be so stupid to think that they left ANYTHING on the table that they could have done differently in terms of size, weight, or cost (again, given the constraints of time and budget).
And Doug, I'm right w/ you on the last part. No matter how many times they tell me it wouldn't work, I'd rather have an LS7 than an LSA. I'd rather have a vintage Lemans blue over either of the 2 current offerings, and I don't need the do-dads either.
My point is, how many people here would let their wallets do the talking, assuming the biggest complaint was addressed?
4100 is totally out of the question though. Not even worth considering for me.
This is coming from a guy who test drove a 3800lb twin turbo 3000GT VR-4 and turned it down for a second gen eclipse because it felt like driving a boat. Weight is not just a number for me....I can tell. I'm not just complaining about a number.
I know that the people who worked on this did all they could. GM just really needed a different platform...a full size sedan was not the right choice. I know the car could have weighed more...a lot of work was done to keep weight down after the structural mayhem that ensued from moving the front wheels that far forward to maintain the proportions.
Last edited by boxerperson; Sep 22, 2009 at 06:30 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Oh man CLEAN, if this car met my specs, my wallet would be spread eagle at the Chevy dealer right now.
BTW, thanks again for doing that thing for me. I owe you. Unfortunately, we couldn't agree on price.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,215
From: Coppell, Texas
Granted I'm not a fan of the 5th gen's weight, I still would like to see what this car can do. We may all be surprised. Let's not discredit what GM's engineers can do. Maybe they can do some magic here. I can't help but feel that GM is a little embarassed about the SS's numbers vs. the GT w/ track package.
Or they could just shove an LSA in it, tighten up the suspension a little and call it a day.
Or they could just shove an LSA in it, tighten up the suspension a little and call it a day.
Last edited by Sixer-Bird; Sep 22, 2009 at 06:39 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,574
From: Arlington, Texas
.Sorry about the second point, but I don't think it's a great loss. There will be a better option in the future for you.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
My comment was more about how people use amateur racing as a yardstick for performance measure. There is a BIG difference between the respective drivers' abilities so the pics seen earlier shouldn't be used as a basis for any argument.
That's all I was trying to say. Clear?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
To all the detractors of the "Z/28" (or whatever GM decide to call it)... but could the Z/28 be introduced to give the racers some genuine track ammunition?
Perhaps GM just doesn't like to lose drag races (dunno for sure) but bragging rights might translate into more sales, particularly if the Z/28 will beat a GT500 at the strip?
Is there anything wrong with this philosophy?
Perhaps GM just doesn't like to lose drag races (dunno for sure) but bragging rights might translate into more sales, particularly if the Z/28 will beat a GT500 at the strip?
Is there anything wrong with this philosophy?
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
Although I actually like the interior (ok it could be better however I digress...) I can't disagree with anything else. To suggest the guys and gals behind this Camaro didn't do their best with the limitations they had is a slap in their faces.
I'm 100% in the same boat, however...
Can I accept the LSA in lieu of the LS7? Yes.
Can I accept one of the blues offered in lieu of Lemans blue? Yes.
Can I accept all the do-dads although I don't necessarily want them? Yes. (Even On-Star)
Can I accept them calling it Z/28 although it may not be the best historically accurate choice? Yes.
Just tell me when I can go to a Chevy dealer and order one.
I'm 100% in the same boat, however...
Can I accept the LSA in lieu of the LS7? Yes.
Can I accept one of the blues offered in lieu of Lemans blue? Yes.
Can I accept all the do-dads although I don't necessarily want them? Yes. (Even On-Star
)Can I accept them calling it Z/28 although it may not be the best historically accurate choice? Yes.
Just tell me when I can go to a Chevy dealer and order one.
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
To all the detractors of the "Z/28" (or whatever GM decide to call it)... but could the Z/28 be introduced to give the racers some genuine track ammunition?
Perhaps GM just doesn't like to lose drag races (dunno for sure) but bragging rights might translate into more sales, particularly if the Z/28 will beat a GT500 at the strip?
Is there anything wrong with this philosophy?
Perhaps GM just doesn't like to lose drag races (dunno for sure) but bragging rights might translate into more sales, particularly if the Z/28 will beat a GT500 at the strip?
Is there anything wrong with this philosophy?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Super83Z, Z284ever is allowed to have his opinion of this car, and the Camaro in general, just as much as you are.............. maybe more. Especially considering the time and effort he has taken, with regards to communication with GM and the Camaro team.
You not agreeing with him, is your perogative. It does not, however, make his point any more or less valid.
I, like others, agree with him. The idea of a lightweight, tossable, razor handling Z28, is very appealing............. even if I am not thrilled with the new Camaro's packaging. It would make me cross shop the Camaro, with the Mustang, again............... like I did in 1991.
Having the "its great" crowd, using the 2007-2009 GT500, as an excuse for this car being fabulous, is ridiculous. Especially considering the comments that have come out of this very forum, about the GT500. It was a nose heavy pig of a car, with huge horsepower, and nothing else................ until the new Camaro came out. Then it was a too nose heavy, straightline only, overpriced beast. Now, with a new Z28 set to come out, in a year, this is a great car to benchmark.
The 2010 GT500 corrected many of the problems with the 2007-2009, and the 2011 will address the most glaring........... being weight and weight distribution. So, how many years will it take for GM to do the same with the "new" Z28.
You not agreeing with him, is your perogative. It does not, however, make his point any more or less valid.
I, like others, agree with him. The idea of a lightweight, tossable, razor handling Z28, is very appealing............. even if I am not thrilled with the new Camaro's packaging. It would make me cross shop the Camaro, with the Mustang, again............... like I did in 1991.
Having the "its great" crowd, using the 2007-2009 GT500, as an excuse for this car being fabulous, is ridiculous. Especially considering the comments that have come out of this very forum, about the GT500. It was a nose heavy pig of a car, with huge horsepower, and nothing else................ until the new Camaro came out. Then it was a too nose heavy, straightline only, overpriced beast. Now, with a new Z28 set to come out, in a year, this is a great car to benchmark.
The 2010 GT500 corrected many of the problems with the 2007-2009, and the 2011 will address the most glaring........... being weight and weight distribution. So, how many years will it take for GM to do the same with the "new" Z28.
You are entitled to your opinion as well, LG94. The fact that you are on your way to buying a 4400lb SHO shouldn't enter this discussion either... so I don't know why you are so concerned about a car's weight, especially a relative lightweight like a 3850 lb Camaro SS.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 388
I love how folks are already complaining when we don't have a car to drive and compare. I mean, it's based on the CTS-V which is a great car from everything I've read......but lots of folks here are unhappy???? REALLY??? At the risk of being offensive - anyone complaining about a car that NO ONE has driven yet is an IDIOT. You need to chill out guys - let's at least enjoy the idea that the Z/28 is coming back!! It's a good thing!!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
You either like it or you don't. You either buy it or you don't. It will translate into either more sales for GM or lost sales.
Sales is a measure of success, not critiques from armchair critics.
Prominent Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
I spend my time with my kids.... oh and on the spare opportunity I get, I get to read the whining from the weight bitches on camaroz28.com.
My comment was more about how people use amateur racing as a yardstick for performance measure. There is a BIG difference between the respective drivers' abilities so the pics seen earlier shouldn't be used as a basis for any argument.
That's all I was trying to say. Clear?
My comment was more about how people use amateur racing as a yardstick for performance measure. There is a BIG difference between the respective drivers' abilities so the pics seen earlier shouldn't be used as a basis for any argument.
That's all I was trying to say. Clear?
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...rack_test.html
.....But as he drills down to specifics, Donohue's assessment is upbeat. "The engine's a stump-puller," he says. "It doesn't matter what gear you're in. And the brakes are excellent." Almost too good, in fact. "Under hard braking," he says, "it almost feels like axle hop. There's so much weight on the nose that the rear lifts up and the ABS kicks in."
The biggest flaw, though, is persistent understeer. "It wants to push just about everywhere," Donohue says. "I even tried pitching it on the way into the corners to wag the rear end out, but that just caused the front end to wash out worse--and earlier. So it's not nimble. But it's not nervous, and it doesn't want to bite you. It's a friendly car that you can get out of shape without worrying about going off the road."
Jones is up next, and I'm expecting him to be unhappy with the Mustang's old-school live axle. But he's amped when he pulls off his helmet. "It's very well balanced," he says. "It doesn't have a lot of push, and the longer I ran, the looser it seemed. I was getting some wheel spin off the slow corners, but it's pretty good in the tight stuff. You can miss your mark and still make the corner and have a good lap."
Jones's major gripe is the brakes. Also, the gearing is such that he was caught between second and third in several corners--an annoying problem because the engine didn't seem to come on the cam until about 4000 rpm. But the big picture looks awfully appealing. "The Mustang is very predictable and real forgiving," he says. "It's a car that you can hustle."
Next, the drivers swap cars. When this session is over, Donohue is the guy wearing the big smile. "Just driving down pit lane, the Mustang seemed much lighter," he says. "The low-speed grip is so much better, and you can toss it into the corner sideways." Jones, on the other hand, looks worn out by the Camaro. "It's a pig," he says bluntly. "The brakes are much better, but it just won't turn. The Mustang is a lot more fun to drive."
.....
The biggest flaw, though, is persistent understeer. "It wants to push just about everywhere," Donohue says. "I even tried pitching it on the way into the corners to wag the rear end out, but that just caused the front end to wash out worse--and earlier. So it's not nimble. But it's not nervous, and it doesn't want to bite you. It's a friendly car that you can get out of shape without worrying about going off the road."
Jones is up next, and I'm expecting him to be unhappy with the Mustang's old-school live axle. But he's amped when he pulls off his helmet. "It's very well balanced," he says. "It doesn't have a lot of push, and the longer I ran, the looser it seemed. I was getting some wheel spin off the slow corners, but it's pretty good in the tight stuff. You can miss your mark and still make the corner and have a good lap."
Jones's major gripe is the brakes. Also, the gearing is such that he was caught between second and third in several corners--an annoying problem because the engine didn't seem to come on the cam until about 4000 rpm. But the big picture looks awfully appealing. "The Mustang is very predictable and real forgiving," he says. "It's a car that you can hustle."
Next, the drivers swap cars. When this session is over, Donohue is the guy wearing the big smile. "Just driving down pit lane, the Mustang seemed much lighter," he says. "The low-speed grip is so much better, and you can toss it into the corner sideways." Jones, on the other hand, looks worn out by the Camaro. "It's a pig," he says bluntly. "The brakes are much better, but it just won't turn. The Mustang is a lot more fun to drive."
.....
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Doug,
I'll be as blunt as always!
What's stopping you from adjusting your SS for camber, castor and toe to suit the track?
Track warriors will do these things to make their cars go better down the strip or at the track... even to the point of throwing out the rear seats just to save weight!
If you take your car to the circuit, it 'almost' renders the weighty arguments pointless.
EDIT: Btw, the Mustang is slower than SS around just about any track. Does 1st place not count for anything on these forums?
I'll be as blunt as always!
What's stopping you from adjusting your SS for camber, castor and toe to suit the track?
Track warriors will do these things to make their cars go better down the strip or at the track... even to the point of throwing out the rear seats just to save weight!
If you take your car to the circuit, it 'almost' renders the weighty arguments pointless.
EDIT: Btw, the Mustang is slower than SS around just about any track. Does 1st place not count for anything on these forums?
