I remember "someone" posting this statement about the v8 engine that was to be in the Camaro, before it was disclosed:

"Forget everything you thought you knew about engines."

Everyone thought there was going to be an LS3 but when that quote got thrown out there, it threw everyone off. But then the camaro ended up with that LS3 everyone thought from the beginning, and one version with AFM, which was the other guess from the beginning as well. Nothing new really, and defenitely not worthy of "Forget everything you thought you knew about engines."

so, in fairness, I think when people are guessing what the car will be like, they are right to go with their gut instict. history proves it.

 

it always was common sense. why wouldn't GM use the Vette drivetrain.

what is interesting and new is AFM on a performance V8.

 

My wife's Grand Prix GXP has it on the LS4 albeit front wheel drive which
I can't stand, but that car has some real power.

 

My 9" weighs within 15lbs of a stock 10 bolt - even with an iron center section. Now what?

 

I guess the obvious question is, will it beat the 4th gen 1LE which Heinricy outlapped the C5 in, almost a decade ago?

 

fair question. but, what if it doesnt? (I dont know btw) what if its close?

more importantly, does it matter?

not in the overall picture it doesnt. If performance sold cars, why did Mustang wipe the floors vs 4th gen FCar in total units sold.

 

Yes. And yes.

The term "unwieldy" would aptly describe your assessment. Since you are the main proponent and the chief critique of the Camaro's weight, it's really immaterial to the 99% of people who will buy this car. Just think for a moment... 1% of the 100,000 cars projected for sale each year is 1,000 cars. That's a lot of would-be racers each year... and I doubt there'd be that many new Camaros lobbing at racetracks each year.

Your (often repeated) criticism is almost irrelevant in this context. Especially so, if you are NOT one of those owners.

 

Just think for a moment...

Perception matters.

Yes, there will be those who will buy this car regardless of the weight just because it says Camaro on the fender. Those are the easy sales. Preaching to the choir with those.

What about the other 99% of the market GM is trying to reach with the car?

Will they still buy the car if the weight is a detriment in comparison tests?
Will they still buy the car if the weight is a detriment in competition?

Think "halo effect". If the car is perceived to be a ponderous beast, it will only sell to the "choir" I mentioned above. In other words, it won't sell outside the group of diehards who bought the last car. We know how that turned out. In fact, it may sell in even fewer numbers once the pent up demand is satisifed since there are 4th gen buyers who aren't going to buy this one because of it's bulk.

Would the C5 and C6 be the successes they are if they weighed 500 lbs more than they do? Probably not. Most of those buyers will never track the cars. Why should it matter?

Perception and image.

Think I'm wrong? Get on some Corvette boards and ask 'em how they would feel if their car gained 100 hp and 500 lbs in the next generation. It would make the reaction here look like an ice cream social.

Criticism is not irrelevant. It improves the breed. What will produce the better product? Criticism or thin skinned myopic cheerleading?

 

Well, in that case, you've completely misrepresented what I said, and now you're simply going off on a tangent.


Whatever.....

 

I think it would kinda matter. 100 more horsepower. IRS. Brembos. 10 year technological leap. Yup, it would matter.

As far as why the SN95 outsold the 4th gen, lots of old threads about that:

- Multiple appealing models.
- Smaller exterior dimensions.
- Better driving position.
- Cool wheels available on all models.
- Various available power levels. (base, GT, Bullitt, Mach 1 {2, stick and auto}, SVT)

I could go on......

 

What I think is that the past/current owners of the wonderful 4th gen, were looking forward to a Camaro that would make them want to go buy the new Camaro.

The fourth Gen was an incredible performace machine, i can remember many a night at Etown vs a few c5 vettes and beating them by 2 tenths, with that it is " only a z28 "...yup I don't think this will happen vs. the new vettes unless you spot the 'maro 8 tenths.

Now, after hearing how great the next gen GTO I retrired my z28 ad got into that, was not unhappy with it but it just did not perform nor excite like the fbody, b/c soft, heavy, weird stance, just didn't jive with me. So I retired that and went back " home " to the fbody.

The natural progression of things is to get faster and better handleing, See Corvette, seems to get better and better. Is this happening to our Camaro ?

If there is maginal performance gain , what is my motivation to get out of the LS1 SS ? ----gotta have it factor----? (see Mustang )

It seems that this Camaro was built to sell, and after all the passion we all put into this. It seems we get 3900lbs, which we cried/pleaded not to get. No Z28 supercharged. An Ls3 which is cool, and this car may be a great performing machine, no one knows.......maybe the 12 diciples do. I guess....I dunno. all know is that by doing the math on the LS3 @3900lbs vs my Ls1@3400 it is damn close........too close for 33,ooo$ usd

Like I said earlier I can't wait to line up a new SS. " but that is only an ls1 "...yup


with that said, if I drive a f5 and it is all that, then I'll be on board, but I've already tried the HOLDEN/GTO and it was comforable but not exciting.

A lot of us were hoping for a machine that would retire our 4th gens, looks like this did not happen. For me it just makes my 27k mi SS that much better!!


Also I cannot wait for the "ADJUSTED MARKET VALUE".

If anything but high OIL is hurting GM , I think the dealership system is CLOSE SECOND.

 

That's the thing. I have thought about it. This car is all about perception! The looks, the engine, the chassis... and I have no doubt GM worked hard to get it's weight down, too! On all counts (without actually having driven the vehicle but have driven the excellent, but poorer cousin, G8) GM have succeeded and I have no doubt that Camaro will be an overall success.

If you want Camaro to blow everything out the water, buy one, strip the seats out, strip the electrics out, desize the brakes, widen the rear rubber to squeeze into those tubbed rear guards... you get my drift? Racers don't skimp on money to get their machines up and running!

 

Thats how i feel...is 30k+ worth comfy seats, irs....and most likely similar performance as an LS1 with a GTO feel. Since i don't care for the way the GTO drives, and i don't want irs...it doesn't make any sense, the weight just pushes it off a cliff for me.

Fancy new body panels is all i'm left drooling over...but i can say the same for a 1000 other cars i'd take for free. So oh well for me i guess...

 

Yes, I do actually! Because the Corvette is GM's 'quickest' car, not Camaro. What I don't understand, is if people wanted a Camaro but expect Vette like performance, why not just go the Vette? It's not handicapped by weight is it?

 

The Camaro is the AFFORDABLE PERFORMANCE car. The way your talking we might as well give it 4 doors too, since i mean the corvette takes care of the 2 door category, right?