GM had BETTER NOT...
09-29-2009, 02:49 PM
#31
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 176
amen to this thread
GM needs to be forced to hear these sort of things. They have a history and until they break that history babysitting is required.
LSA needs to be forged, period.
All the drama is supported
GM needs to be forced to hear these sort of things. They have a history and until they break that history babysitting is required.
LSA needs to be forged, period.
All the drama is supported
09-29-2009, 02:52 PM
#32
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 4,482
i do understand that the forged piston should be in the motor. but i dont understand the dispute of the motor in the "z28" that isnt even produced or anounced for production. right now the fight should be against forged pistons in the next cts-v motor and ZR1. because thats where the motor is. its not in the camaro.
09-29-2009, 04:31 PM
#33
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
i do understand that the forged piston should be in the motor. but i dont understand the dispute of the motor in the "z28" that isnt even produced or anounced for production. right now the fight should be against forged pistons in the next cts-v motor and ZR1. because thats where the motor is. its not in the camaro.
I'm guessing 2 years on normal timing to validate a powertrain.
So, if the 2012 car is to have the LSA, and forged pistons are to be in that motor, they better be validating it now.
If not, then we sure as heck better make enough noise about it (no pun intended) to ensure it happens for the 2013 cars.
Waiting until the car hits the press as a mule, or launches for SORP is far, far too late to bring the subject up.
They are going to have to validate and certify the LSA WITH or WITHOUT forged pistons in the Camaro. If they do it without, it is:
1) Stupid beyond measure.
2) A waste of money if they wake up and smell the coffee later and try to switch over to forged slugs after the backlash about grenading motors begins.
09-29-2009, 05:06 PM
#34
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Payson, AZ USA
Posts: 1,181
Just picture it.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
09-29-2009, 06:54 PM
#37
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
Guy, I didn't say that. The LS7 would be a far more economical approach than the LSA.
All I was implying is that if GM were to be in a confrontation with Ford's forced induction engines (i.e. Camaro vs Mustang) the cupboard would be bare for GM on that front unless GM chooses to go with the LS9 for Camaro.
Personally, I think an LS7 'Track Pack' Camaro would appease the interests of the vocal few who do actually race the GM product... as they keep telling us they don't need more power, just a stripped-out track weapon from the factory.
All I was implying is that if GM were to be in a confrontation with Ford's forced induction engines (i.e. Camaro vs Mustang) the cupboard would be bare for GM on that front unless GM chooses to go with the LS9 for Camaro.
Personally, I think an LS7 'Track Pack' Camaro would appease the interests of the vocal few who do actually race the GM product... as they keep telling us they don't need more power, just a stripped-out track weapon from the factory.
09-29-2009, 11:46 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas
Posts: 1,215
Just picture it.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
09-30-2009, 01:01 AM
#41
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
http://dagostinoracing.com/index.php...ducts_id=12331
You're thinking of the aftermarket GT500 from Shelby, not the regular GT500 from Svt/Ford. Feel sorry for those owners
. I wonder what their insurance $$$ are.
09-30-2009, 07:13 AM
#42
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 4,482
In order to validate the product and certify for emissions and fuel economy prior to start of regular production, and if they plan for cast pistons at this moment in time, they're already probably too late.
I'm guessing 2 years on normal timing to validate a powertrain.
So, if the 2012 car is to have the LSA, and forged pistons are to be in that motor, they better be validating it now.
If not, then we sure as heck better make enough noise about it (no pun intended) to ensure it happens for the 2013 cars.
Waiting until the car hits the press as a mule, or launches for SORP is far, far too late to bring the subject up.
They are going to have to validate and certify the LSA WITH or WITHOUT forged pistons in the Camaro. If they do it without, it is:
1) Stupid beyond measure.
2) A waste of money if they wake up and smell the coffee later and try to switch over to forged slugs after the backlash about grenading motors begins.
I'm guessing 2 years on normal timing to validate a powertrain.
So, if the 2012 car is to have the LSA, and forged pistons are to be in that motor, they better be validating it now.
If not, then we sure as heck better make enough noise about it (no pun intended) to ensure it happens for the 2013 cars.
Waiting until the car hits the press as a mule, or launches for SORP is far, far too late to bring the subject up.
They are going to have to validate and certify the LSA WITH or WITHOUT forged pistons in the Camaro. If they do it without, it is:
1) Stupid beyond measure.
2) A waste of money if they wake up and smell the coffee later and try to switch over to forged slugs after the backlash about grenading motors begins.
09-30-2009, 07:15 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 4,482
Just picture it.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
Joe Camaro lines up, on Friday night "run what ya brung," in his new Z28. He is excited. After all, he just paid his $48 large, for the biggest, baddest Camaro out there. Just to make sure that he can kill all comers, he bumps up the boost.
Fred Mustang lines up next to Joe Camaro. His GT500 is seeing its first night out, with a tuner and increased boost. He is anxious to dial it in and see what it does. He is especially interested to see how he does against GM's latest and greatest, next to him.
The lights turn, both cars shoot out of the hole !!!!
In a puff of smoke, it is all over. The GT500 trips the lights with a decent run. Fred Mustang is pleased, but knows that he has to get better with his newfound power. Joe Camaro is on the verge of tears. Just past the 60 foot lights, his engine blew. All the rumors he had heard, of the engine being close to maxed out, must be true. Why would GM do this to him???
Disclaimer: This is an imaginary scenerio based on what we know at this time.
09-30-2009, 07:53 AM
#44
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
But let's not turn some person's dream into a nightmare...
09-30-2009, 10:11 AM
#45
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
GT500 guys can install a smaller pulley in a 1/2 hour and increase performance significantly without having to tear apart the motor. Why would we not want the same kind of convenience in the Camaro? Don't you think a non-grenading motor under simple modifications would be a selling point within the enthusiast community? Possibly?
That's the point here.You guys say GM "doesn't/shouldn't care" if people modify their engines for more performance since it kisses the warranty goodbye anyway - but that's a pi$$-poor attitude to have when Ford entices enthusiasts by offering forged internals straight from the factory for their blown monster.
Last edited by Z28Wilson; 09-30-2009 at 10:53 AM.