GM had BETTER NOT...
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,178
From: Payson, AZ USA
When it comes to modifying, you will always see those guys who seem to defy all logic. They are the ones who have a bottom end holding up to ridiculous horsepower, or the weak stock axle that has seen hundreds of runs at the strip with slicks, or the blown 5.0 Ranger swapper, running a stock Dana 28 front, or even the rockcrawler running stock Dana 44's with 38's.
It makes no sense, but they are out there. It is always funny to watch everyone hold those lucky few up as the standard. Like everyone else who does the same, will have the same luck. Unfortunately, the opposite is usually true.
They are almost like the urban myth. After you have been around racing and modifying vehicles long enough, you see plenty of this.
Frankly, I like to KNOW that my parts aren't going to blow up. It costs alot less, to do it right the first time............ instead of just being cheap.
It makes no sense, but they are out there. It is always funny to watch everyone hold those lucky few up as the standard. Like everyone else who does the same, will have the same luck. Unfortunately, the opposite is usually true.
They are almost like the urban myth. After you have been around racing and modifying vehicles long enough, you see plenty of this.
Frankly, I like to KNOW that my parts aren't going to blow up. It costs alot less, to do it right the first time............ instead of just being cheap.
West South Central Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
I never bought a GMT-800, but does that mean I should have gone cheap on the seat frames I engineered for it???
"Awwww heck... Let's NOT use that super-spiffy and expensive ultra high strength steel and use some crappy HSLA instead... sure the frame will separate and send the driver rocketing through the windshield if he hits a brick wall at 40 mph... but everything is fine if he hits the brick wall at the Federally mandated 35!"
"Awwww heck... Let's NOT use that super-spiffy and expensive ultra high strength steel and use some crappy HSLA instead... sure the frame will separate and send the driver rocketing through the windshield if he hits a brick wall at 40 mph... but everything is fine if he hits the brick wall at the Federally mandated 35!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWdT4bRnCHI&NR=1
Listen to what is said around the 30 second mark...
My daily driver is a 2005 Silverado...
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
LSA $14,295.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801
LS7 $13,649.95 (w/o dry sump)
LS7 dry-sump $1,489.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248447
Without the dry-sump the LS7 is less than $1000 less. Its also heavily discounted because its being phased out by GM. Most if not all future GM high performance V8s will more than likely be supercharged. With the dry-sump kit the LS7 jumps to $15,139.90. Of course these are retail prices not GM costs, however they're fairly comparable.
For Joe Camaro the LSA choice would allow him to do a simply pulley-swap to improve performance. Change that to the LS7 and its going to require bolt-ons or internal modifications just to match the performance of the LSA, and even more to improve upon it.
Which sounds like the more economical and easily upgradeable engine choice now? (Leave out the cast vs. forged internals discussion, as I have already said that I'd like to see GM go that direction with a detuned LS9.)
Heck in a perfect world, the Z/28 would get the upcoming Corvette GenV 5.3L V8, but we know that's not going to happen... at least probably not with this Camaro Z/28.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,482
From: ohio
Huh?
LSA $14,295.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801
LS7 $13,649.95 (w/o dry sump)
LS7 dry-sump $1,489.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248447
Without the dry-sump the LS7 is less than $1000 less. Its also heavily discounted because its being phased out by GM. Most if not all future GM high performance V8s will more than likely be supercharged. With the dry-sump kit the LS7 jumps to $15,139.90. Of course these are retail prices not GM costs, however they're fairly comparable.
For Joe Camaro the LSA choice would allow him to do a simply pulley-swap to improve performance. Change that to the LS7 and its going to require bolt-ons or internal modifications just to match the performance of the LSA, and even more to improve upon it.
Which sounds like the more economical and easily upgradeable engine choice now? (Leave out the cast vs. forged internals discussion, as I have already said that I'd like to see GM go that direction with a detuned LS9.)
Heck in a perfect world, the Z/28 would get the upcoming Corvette GenV 5.3L V8, but we know that's not going to happen... at least probably not with this Camaro Z/28.
LSA $14,295.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801
LS7 $13,649.95 (w/o dry sump)
LS7 dry-sump $1,489.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248447
Without the dry-sump the LS7 is less than $1000 less. Its also heavily discounted because its being phased out by GM. Most if not all future GM high performance V8s will more than likely be supercharged. With the dry-sump kit the LS7 jumps to $15,139.90. Of course these are retail prices not GM costs, however they're fairly comparable.
For Joe Camaro the LSA choice would allow him to do a simply pulley-swap to improve performance. Change that to the LS7 and its going to require bolt-ons or internal modifications just to match the performance of the LSA, and even more to improve upon it.
Which sounds like the more economical and easily upgradeable engine choice now? (Leave out the cast vs. forged internals discussion, as I have already said that I'd like to see GM go that direction with a detuned LS9.)
Heck in a perfect world, the Z/28 would get the upcoming Corvette GenV 5.3L V8, but we know that's not going to happen... at least probably not with this Camaro Z/28.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
LSA = 0.0389
LS7 = 0.0333
LSA wins.
Of course that is assuming you keep both basically stock. However, the point of this thread was that many Z/28 buyers are going to modify their LSA Z/28s and that GM should spend a little more money and give it the LS9's forged internals. Somehow this got hijacked into a discussion about the LS7 being a better engine for the Z/28. There are no less than a dozen other threads debating this. We don't need one more. This discussion was more about what GM can do to improve the LSA in the Z/28 so it doesn't fail.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Um...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWdT4bRnCHI&NR=1
Listen to what is said around the 30 second mark...
My daily driver is a 2005 Silverado...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWdT4bRnCHI&NR=1
Listen to what is said around the 30 second mark...
My daily driver is a 2005 Silverado...
The seat exceeded all applicable Federal standards in force at the time of it's design (which is the criteria that matters).
Regardless, professionally I would like to take a look at that seat frame and see whether or not intrusion into the passenger compartment separated the track from the frame or exactly what type of separation occurred.
Because of how the seat back frame interfaces with the track, you would have to completely shear through two pretty healthly fasteners to separate the back frame from the recliner.
More likely, I could see the seat cushion frame separating from the track, or the recliner system separating from the track.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,688
From: Middle of Kansas
***Someday, I am gonna invent the automatic "Shut the F*CK UP" stick for engineers. If, during a meeting, a beancounter suggests that money needs to be saved by replacing... say...forged pistons with cast ones on a flagship performance motor... Well, then the "Shut the F*CK UP" stick would magically appear like a lightsaber in the hands of the nearest sane engineer, would then have a legal blank check to beat said beancounter's head right through the table Al Capone-style.***
***Oh yeah... and if the engineer happens to be the one who says something like: "We can't figure out how to make the pistons less noisy" -or- "We can't put a better rear end in this car because we can't find the mass anywhere to offset it"... Well then the automatic "Shut the F*CK UP" stick would magically appear and force him to beat HIS OWN head into the table, Al Capone-style.***
***Oh yeah... and if the engineer happens to be the one who says something like: "We can't figure out how to make the pistons less noisy" -or- "We can't put a better rear end in this car because we can't find the mass anywhere to offset it"... Well then the automatic "Shut the F*CK UP" stick would magically appear and force him to beat HIS OWN head into the table, Al Capone-style.***
I like this!!!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,482
From: ohio
Its simple math actually. HP/$.
LSA = 0.0389
LS7 = 0.0333
LSA wins. Of course that is assuming you keep both basically stock.
However, the point of this thread was that many Z/28 buyers are going to modify their LSA Z/28s and that GM should spend a little more money and give it the LS9's forged internals. Somehow this got hijacked into a discussion about the LS7 being a better engine for the Z/28. There are no less than a dozen other threads debating this. We don't need one more. This discussion was more about what GM can do to improve the LSA in the Z/28 so it doesn't fail.
LSA = 0.0389
LS7 = 0.0333
LSA wins.
Of course that is assuming you keep both basically stock. However, the point of this thread was that many Z/28 buyers are going to modify their LSA Z/28s and that GM should spend a little more money and give it the LS9's forged internals. Somehow this got hijacked into a discussion about the LS7 being a better engine for the Z/28. There are no less than a dozen other threads debating this. We don't need one more. This discussion was more about what GM can do to improve the LSA in the Z/28 so it doesn't fail.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,154
From: All around
This is really heated. Regardless of who helped design the Ford motor, Ford puts it in a vehicle. Who was in charge at Ford of the GT500? SVT.
Do I need to say more? If GMPD were functioning like SVT, I would expect fully forged guts. Are the hypo-pistons truly at their potential? I cannot say. The motor is no slouch either way though. Is it a performance dream? No. They'd need to pull the 100lb of sound insulation out of it as a start.
If rumors are true, the Z28 will be hitting late 2011 as a likely 2012 model. We're talking 2 years away from now. A year before a GenV could hit the streets in a new C7. A year before the new Zeta. Two years before we could have Alpha in showrooms.
The true harcore enthusiasts will already be looking toward the 6th gen with a DI GenV motor by the time this hits the street. I hate to say it - but I feel this whole arguement is futile - though I agree, the LSA should always have come with forged slugs.
Though - if rumors are true and a another 6.2L S/C engine was designed and meant for truck use - the "LST" - what would GM do to the LSA to handle the additional abuse and heavy loads? I'd say they'd add have added forged slugs and additional cooling and called it a day.
Do I need to say more? If GMPD were functioning like SVT, I would expect fully forged guts. Are the hypo-pistons truly at their potential? I cannot say. The motor is no slouch either way though. Is it a performance dream? No. They'd need to pull the 100lb of sound insulation out of it as a start.
If rumors are true, the Z28 will be hitting late 2011 as a likely 2012 model. We're talking 2 years away from now. A year before a GenV could hit the streets in a new C7. A year before the new Zeta. Two years before we could have Alpha in showrooms.
The true harcore enthusiasts will already be looking toward the 6th gen with a DI GenV motor by the time this hits the street. I hate to say it - but I feel this whole arguement is futile - though I agree, the LSA should always have come with forged slugs.
Though - if rumors are true and a another 6.2L S/C engine was designed and meant for truck use - the "LST" - what would GM do to the LSA to handle the additional abuse and heavy loads? I'd say they'd add have added forged slugs and additional cooling and called it a day.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Regardless of who helped design the Ford motor, Ford puts it in a vehicle. Who was in charge at Ford of the GT500? SVT.
Do I need to say more? If GMPD were functioning like SVT, I would expect fully forged guts. Are the hypo-pistons truly at their potential? I cannot say. The motor is no slouch either way though. Is it a performance dream? No. They'd need to pull the 100lb of sound insulation out of it as a start.
If rumors are true, the Z28 will be hitting late 2011 as a likely 2012 model. We're talking 2 years away from now. A year before a GenV could hit the streets in a new C7. A year before the new Zeta. Two years before we could have Alpha in showrooms.
The true harcore enthusiasts will already be looking toward the 6th gen with a DI GenV motor by the time this hits the street. I hate to say it - but I feel this whole arguement is futile - though I agree, the LSA should always have come with forged slugs.
Though - if rumors are true and a another 6.2L S/C engine was designed and meant for truck use - the "LST" - what would GM do to the LSA to handle the additional abuse and heavy loads? I'd say they'd add have added forged slugs and additional cooling and called it a day.
Do I need to say more? If GMPD were functioning like SVT, I would expect fully forged guts. Are the hypo-pistons truly at their potential? I cannot say. The motor is no slouch either way though. Is it a performance dream? No. They'd need to pull the 100lb of sound insulation out of it as a start.
If rumors are true, the Z28 will be hitting late 2011 as a likely 2012 model. We're talking 2 years away from now. A year before a GenV could hit the streets in a new C7. A year before the new Zeta. Two years before we could have Alpha in showrooms.
The true harcore enthusiasts will already be looking toward the 6th gen with a DI GenV motor by the time this hits the street. I hate to say it - but I feel this whole arguement is futile - though I agree, the LSA should always have come with forged slugs.
Though - if rumors are true and a another 6.2L S/C engine was designed and meant for truck use - the "LST" - what would GM do to the LSA to handle the additional abuse and heavy loads? I'd say they'd add have added forged slugs and additional cooling and called it a day.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Huh?
LSA $14,295.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801
LS7 $13,649.95 (w/o dry sump)
LS7 dry-sump $1,489.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248447
LSA $14,295.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=249801
LS7 $13,649.95 (w/o dry sump)
LS7 dry-sump $1,489.95
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=248447
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,215
From: Coppell, Texas
Though - if rumors are true and a another 6.2L S/C engine was designed and meant for truck use - the "LST" - what would GM do to the LSA to handle the additional abuse and heavy loads? I'd say they'd add have added forged slugs and additional cooling and called it a day.
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf