I can't argue with that, but I'm capable of ignoring those numbers (and a couple other subjective measures they like to include), adjusting the scores in my head accordingly, and determining my own winner.

I do like to read the opinions of people who spend all day every day trying out cars. I take them all with a grain of salt, but they are not without their value.

 

Are you reading the same article, or are you simply looking to get a rise out of the people on this GM site? The '10 Mustang is a vast improvement over the '08. GM won't miss you.

 

In doing some online research between the 2010 mustang and camaro, I've come to this conclusion.

If I were basing my decision to purchase either vehicle on the interior alone, the Mustang would be the hands down winner. Not only does the interior just look nicer, but the plethora of options that are available border on the unbelievable compared to the Camaro.

Mustang: In dash navigation screen which can get you traffic reports AND gas prices along the way, microsoft sync (which btw if you haven't messed with this, you should, it's pretty cool), 10 gigabyte hard drive, automatic crash notification, lighted cup holders? (why doesn't every car have this?)and a glass roof option. (btw, you can get all this stuff in the GT premium package for around the same price as a 2SS Camaro)

Camaro: 4 pack guages (all but useless in real world driving), satellite radio (big whoop, sat radio sucks my ***** anyway), Onstar?, USB (ok, cool, I can plug in my ipod at least).

Why aren't options like these available on the 2010 Camaro? Ok, the answer is cost you say? Look, if Ford can afford to put options like these on their Mustang, why can't Chevrolet? They call the 2010 Camaro the sports car for the 21st century? Please! Mustang has that title hands down. (I would probably put Challengers interior behind Camaros interior, but even the Chally has an in dash navigation option! Since the interior of the car is where we spend most of our time, to me at least, the fit and finish, and amenities available to me in the cabin are mucho importante.

GM better wise up and modernize the interior of the Camaro real quick, otherwise, when Fords 5.0 hits the streets, Camaro will be choking on Mustang sales dust!

Don't get me wrong here, exterior wise, I love the Camaro, but the more I see and think about the interior, the less I like it.

Commence flaming now.

 

Oh, you're still flaming! Especially when using phrases like "suck my *****, calling the Challenger; Chally, using mucho importante!"

Seems like people are not looking at market strategy when you make comments like you have above. I'm not going to argue if the mustang is better or not, that is all a form of opinion and what the individual likes. If you look at a market stand point, you don't HAVE to put all of the accessories into a vehicle for it to sell. The amount of attention that this Camaro has gotten is enough to sell them for the first year. Then they will add a few more accessories and/or up the performance and that will bring in more people to buy them the second year.

If you look at the life of the most current mustang, meaning 05-present, look at what was offered in 2005. The look of the car alone sold most of them. I'm sure more things were added in 06-09 (not really following mustangs sorry), but now that the Camaro is a reality, look what ford has done with the mustang now. They have added features like the glass roof, the sync, navigation because they need something to stay over their competition. I mean really look, how long has the sync system been out, or navigation systems and they are now (I think, again I don't follow mustangs) just putting them into the mustang. It's because they didn't need to well the Camaro wasn't around. Plus, what other performance sports vehicle does ford even have, as in affordable sports car? Ford GT doesn't count because it's not affordable for average public, and if anyone calls the focus a performance sports vehicle, well you're just as bad as Mr. "Flaming" above.

 

I still havent even seen one. As far as im concerned this car is vaperware. And the vert is still getting pushed back.

 

Yes, well regardless of who may or may not be flaming anyone, the fact of the matter is; The targeted group of buyers for the Camaro are the same as for the Mustang. When a "non enthusiast" goes in to look at these cars, they are going to see the Mustang with all the gadgets and doodads and think "wow, this is some really cool stuff, and it's pretty fast to boot!". When they sit in the Camaro, they'll say "oh look, it has a USB port, but oh man is it fast or what!".

I can pretty much guarantee you that for the "average" buyer out there, things like navigation, traffic reports, and glass roofs are going to be a higher priority then horsepower. Those are things that are going to sway "most" BMW, Infinity, and Audi owners, not 426 hp LS3's

Flame away.

 

You missed the dual zone automatic climate control and the power/memory driver's seat.

 

I recognize this.

This is the "I make an baseless statement I can't prove, and when someone calls me out, I make them dig up something to prove me wrong... then I go lawyerly, and pick apart every little word and either I find a hole to exploit, or he gives up and I win, both without doing anything to support my statement" scenario.

It's usually used on other websites where there isn't alot of people who are used to having to support statements they make with facts or supporting evidence.

Seen it played out here many times over the years.

 

so does this mean the camaro can be in car and drivers 10 best list?

 

why should i have to dig up EVERY article where c&d loves a ford? its as simple as looking at any magazine.read how the writes talk about the fords and you can clearly tell in the description of the cars that they are all for them. i have subscribed to car and driver for quite a while now. they are the only car magazine that i have read that responds this way to chevy. all the big magazines do comparisson on the same cars in the same month. i read them all. there is a different tone in the car and driver. do i have cold hard facts that they hate chevy? did they every come out and say that? probably not and no i dont have spy photos of them kicking the bumper on a camaro showing how much they hate it. its all in the sense of their articles.

 

First, I agree with the above statement here, that's kind my whole point. GM will have to add more accessories to continue to appeal to the "average" buyer. However, it's needed as much right now because of the hype over this vehicle, plus the true Camaro fans will buy this car because it's a Camaro. To the true Camaro fans, its just the fact that it is a Camaro, the other features are a bonus! I'm sure mustang fans are the same way, they'll buy the vehicle because it is a mustang, all of the accessories are an added bonus. It's sucks that mustangs right now have a few more or features and accessories then the Camaro, but you can't tell me that ford added that stuff just because and that it had nothing to due with the fact the Camaro is back.

And second, I don't think you really understand my "flaming" joke, which actually kind of helps it all the more, thank you.

 

Exactly. Agree 100%, and you're right that Ford added all the doodads because of the Camaro. Because they understand that there are more potential buyers out there than just core enthusiasts.

 

Jason.... now I gotta go to Roundtable on the way home.


Seriously though, it's great to actually have good 2 door, RWD, V8 competition between all 3 American automakers again. The last time this happened was in 1974! I suspect about 90% of the people on this site weren't even around than... and those of us that were, aren't too comfortable with revealing our age.

The new Mustang is truly fantastic. The interior actually leapfrogs over the term "Japanese" quality, and wouldn't look at all cheap in an Audi. What Ford did with Mustang's handling and live axle suspension (which was already good) is now again proving that IRS doesn't automatically mean better handling (11 years ago, the live axle Z28 actually could outhandle the IRS Corvette till the Vette's suspension was upgraded the following year).


It's also truly funny reading some of the reactions to the Mustang's speed. It was only a few weeks ago that yet another poster seemed to suggest that a V6 Camaro would match a Mustang GT, and about a month ago that I got into a debate with someone over the fact the Mustang GT was all but a draw with the Camaro SS till at least 60, and even the 1/8 mile.


The fact of the matter is that if you are a Camaro fanboy, there is nothing that anyone can say that will make you pick a Mustang. Same goes if one is a Mustang fanboy. Or Mopar. Performance tests like these are nothing but bragging rights for each camp to cherry pick what someone else praised about the car they're an enthusiast of.

I have a ton of praise for all 3, and I have some points of contention with all 3.

The Camaro V6 is THE performance deal of a lifetime. It's dirt cheap, it has IRS, it has a 304 horse V6 that gets 29 mpg. It has a 6 speed manual tranny, it will light up it's rear tires on demand & do 0-60 in 6 seconds. Top top it off, it looks like it will literally eat any nearby car if you ever walk out of it's sight, and will actually run 157 mph! The Camaro's downside is that it perhaps has the most bland and plasticky dash in all automotive kingdom, it's back seat is the smaller than the Mustang, despite the size difference, and between a 5-star crash rating body and an IRS designed for severe punishment, the cost is poundage.

The standard Mustang GT is the planet's lowest priced V8, and that high quality interior will sell truckloads of standard V6 Mustangs over anything else going for 20K. Add the Track Pack, and you can take down pretty much every stock thing GM's made that has at least 4 seats and has handling pretentions... as long as the road has curves or any drag race doesn't involve more than 1/8 mile.

The Challenger is America's only big coupe, which once upon a time was America's biggest selling car segment. The Challenger R/T is no Mustang, but it's no lumbering slouch either. Despite being the biggest and heaviest guy on the block with actual power spitting distance from 400 horses, the thing gets better fuel economy than the other V8s..... infact, it gets almost the exact same fuel economy as an Infiniti G35.. complete with small V6.

It's all a matter of choices and preference at the V8 level.

Putting all predjuices aside, I too would give the Mustang GT the edge over the Camaro SS (although I'm not crazy about the rear design) based on the facts. I'd also give the Challenger R/T props. It unexpectely undercuts the price of the Camaro SS, it gets unexpectedly good fuel economy, it's quick (though it's top speed is unexplainably goverened excessively low IMO), it's made better than most all Chrysler's since the LX came out. Finally, it's a car you can actually take the family out in, and even has a trunk big enough to double as a back room.


The only people who are likely to buy by comparing are the folks who are looking at V6 cars. At that level, Camaro wins.... NO CONTEST!!

 

If you haven't seen it, then I guess it doesn't exist.

 

I've seen several in the past week alone, including one sitting front and center on my local Ford dealer's lot, waiting to be sold.

Because you're the one making the claim that they're biased.

BTW, nobody is asking for EVERY article -- just evidence of a trend.