Mustang likely to get 32v 5.4 engine & Falcon may be imported here!

I posted this on the Falcon & Mustang thread, but I think it's worthy of it's own thread.


"The Yanks are considering Falcon's four-valve V8 engine
By BRUCE NEWTON 6 February 2003

THE Ford Australia-developed Boss family of four-valve 5.4-litre V8 engines could be the company's first export opportunity to the US, ahead of any interest in Falcon or the forthcoming E265 cross-over.

Ford Motor Company heavyweights in Detroit are impressed by the local development of the modular V8 and there could be opportunities for an export program back to home base.

While there are no concrete plans in place, preliminary discussions over the possibilities for the Boss in North America have been conducted.

A study into the possibility of Falcon exports to the US was given the green light in November. Raptor and the Falcon platform are also believed to be included in the study.

US interest in the Boss family was confirmed to GoAuto by Philip Martens, Ford Motor Company vice-president, vehicle programs and processes, and North American product development.

His enthusiasm is particularly significant for Ford Australia because his responsibilities include improving the Ford North America product creation process, including program management, commonality, quality, cost, speed, vehicle evaluation and verification.

He confirmed a pre-Christmas meeting in Dearborn with Ford Australia product development vice-president Trevor Worthington at which the Boss engine was discussed.

"Trevor came to see me to see if we could close-couple the working relationship between the two (Ford Motor Company and Ford Australia) - and the best way to do that is to have a common product program to share what you're working on," Mr Marten said.

"Given all the things that they have done with the Falcon, the easiest way forward is for us to share an engine, and that's what they could do. But we don't have any plans written down specifically yet."

Mr Martens praised the work done in Australia developing Boss, arguing that remoteness from headquarters in North America had actually aided the process.

"They (Ford Australia) are best being left alone to find creative solutions driven by market need. They're going to get more out of that than throwing it (5.4-litre four-valve engine development) into the big Ford system here," he said.

"That's why the reverse cycle - bringing it back up here - is what I prefer."

The Boss engine has been developed locally in two configurations - a 260kW/500Nm version for the XR8 and a 290kW/520Nm version for the Ford Performance Vehicles range.

The Boss four-valve head configuration is unique to Australia and largely because of that the engine is also locally assembled at FPV's headquarters in Melbourne.

The engine's performance is well beyond anything achieved out of that family in normally-aspirated form in the US.

Mr Martens suggested the Boss could be applicable to Ford's North American rear-wheel drive line-up, including the next generation Mustang launched in 2005.

But he also believes the XR8 Falcon might be worthy for investigation for US sale.

"I could see us doing that, we'd have to go through a federalisation study and you'd have to fit it in," Mr Martens said.

"But to me it's there and how we take advantage of these global assets is an opportunity ... I just think we are sitting still if we don't take advantage of it. We've got to work on that."

http://www.editorial.discountnewcars.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/NT01961C5A

Awww daaayuuummmm!!!

Nice post guionM.
I have a little something to add to that...

I'll be right back...

I'm back...
I copied this post from another thread.
It is better placed in this one anyhow.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in early January, I wrote...
Originally posted by ProudPony
...If the shift to the 3V-5.0 motor goes through, all things get crazy. That would facilitate the BOSS 302 in name AND engine size, the Duratec V6 can then grow a tad in displacement and not scare the base V8 in HP, and a whole new can of worms gets opened-up for the high-performers like Mach 1 (IF they do it again), and Cobra...


Let's just rehash that NOW, in late February...
The Oz version is indeed the 5.4 instead of a 5.0, but to take .040" lift off the crank is no barn-buster IMO. Or they could just reduce the bore by .010" diameter and leave the crank alone to decrease the displacement - which would also yield thicker cylinder walls. :) Either way, I can see a 5.0 easily.
The development work is done. :)
Ford-Oz and Ford-Dearborn have had meetings to discuss bringing the BOSS motor over here (done in December actually) and the prospects look good. :)

And then I just found these...
pic 1 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00869.jpg)
pic 2 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00872.jpg) (yes, that's a Vette.)
pic 3 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00894.jpg)
pic 4 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00893.jpg)
pic 5 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00837.jpg)
pic 6 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00874.jpg) (It's still a Vette.)

(PS - to guionM, these were taken at California Speedway... you haven't seen these cars on a trailer out there somewhere have you? Seems that ALL the new Mustang development is happening out there dude!)

OK - am I still hung over from last Friday night, or does anybody see something in that bodywork, grill, profile, fender lettering, and bumper lettering? Hmmm?

:eek: :bow: :D ;) :p

More Falcon to USA news:


"Ford heavyweights are driving the Falcon in Detroit this week
By MARTON PETTENDY 26 February 2003

FORD Australia will take another step towards becoming a global player this week, when a fleet of four BA Falcons is sampled in the US by FoMoCo's top management.

The Falcons, believed to comprise entry level XT, high series Fairmont Ghia, XR6 and XR6 Turbo models, will be chaperoned by Ford Australia vice president product development Trevor Worthington.

"There's a whole host of guys, from Bill Ford down, lined up to drive them," confirmed Ford Australia president Geoff Polites at last week's Falcon GT launch.

The test drive is the latest is a series of significant steps taken by Ford's Dearborn headquarters to become more familiar with Australia's Falcon - including a "paper study" into the viability of the model revealed exclusively by GoAuto in January - but Mr Polites was quick to play down the immediate significance of the exercise.

"I don't think anything will come from it," he said. "There are lots of things that theoretically make sense but there are lots of reasons why that theory doesn't happen."

For the first time, however, Mr Polites revealed the longer-term possibility of Ford Australia becoming integral to the design of a low-cost rear-wheel drive Blue Oval platform globally, in much the same way Holden will be employed by General Motors to design and engineer GM's low-cost rear-drive underpinnings beyond the next all-new model due in 2005. ( :eek: )

Like Holden, Ford Australia would potentially gain valuable design and engineering funds from such an arrangement, which would reduce the cost of local development work considerably or fund the engineering for more derivative products, such as more Falcon-based recreational cross-over vehicles.

"Long term outcomes will not be us exporting Falcons into the US. Long term outcomes will be about platform sharing," said Mr Polites.

"If you were sitting here with a Ford hat on, the best outcome we could get would be for us to produce the low-cost platform and for our platform to be picked up in the US. Then you can do derivatives, you could do the (E265 crossover) wagon here and send it over there and it's relatively low volume.

"With our skill levels, our labour rates, with the dollar where it is, with ACIS, we are a very low cost of quality engineering. If you can do a platform (sharing) type arrangement then it lowers your engineering costs. Basically, it makes sense," he said.

Mr Polites, who has long maintained Ford Australia is viable as a domestic market-only business, continued to express pessimism for the possibility of any future exports apart from platform and/or engine technology.

While he was quick to dismiss suggestions the Falcon brand could be exported globally in a similar way to Holden - which has ambitions of selling its own Holden-badged products internationally - Mr Polites did not rule out Falcon exports long term.

Ford Australia's export hopes could be bolstered by the recent announcement of a wide- ranging review of FoMoCo's international operations.

Led by new global operations boss David Thursfield and his deputy, Ford family member Elena Ford, the sweeping review aims to make the company more profitable and efficient by taking "a very broad look at what exists in each place and the best way to drive business".

http://www.editorial.discountnewcars.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/03241D2A59B10E69CA256CD8003944CB

WOW, the next few years are looking to be very interesting!

Jason

So are those pics of the new car? If they are, they look even more like the old mustangs.

Originally posted by ProudPony
And then I just found these...
pic 1 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00869.jpg)
pic 2 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00872.jpg) (yes, that's a Vette.)
pic 3 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00894.jpg)
pic 4 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00893.jpg)
pic 5 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00837.jpg)
pic 6 (http://www.online-racer.com/Dsc00874.jpg) (It's still a Vette.)

(PS - to guionM, these were taken at California Speedway... you haven't seen these cars on a trailer out there somewhere have you? Seems that ALL the new Mustang development is happening out there dude!)

OK - am I still hung over from last Friday night, or does anybody see something in that bodywork, grill, profile, fender lettering, and bumper lettering? Hmmm?

:eek: :bow: :D ;) :p

Just got a chance to look at the pics. They don't look much like the actual car, but still very interesting (especially being they had 5.0 stickers).

Originally posted by guionM
Just got a chance to look at the pics. They don't look much like the actual car, but still very interesting (especially being they had 5.0 stickers).

Consider this...
They were taken JUNE 21, 2002!!! :eek:
That means the car was DONE over 8 months ago!
And who knows how much earlier than that the group started on it?
I don't think the looks are "coincidental".

I think the entire front end strongly resembles the new concept cars. The roofline is off a bit, especially on the coupe, but the 'vert model is pretty true to the concept overall. Look at the round, sunken headlights. Look at the above/below the bumper grill, and valence panels closely...

I DO NOT think this is a factory project, but it would appear to me that somebody is in on some pretty close ties with Team Mustang and got some peeks before we did. I also expect that this project is geared towards aftermarket goodies for the upcoming '05 models. And if that is the case, the BOSS name is certainly a curiosity, at least to me anyhow.

The basic Mustang design was completed over a year and a half ago, and J. Mays said that the production version was revised in the front end not too long ago, due to better acceptance of the front that's on the concept car, so it may not bee too far fetched that it's factory.

odd....us Canadians export the new 24V 5.4L to Austraila.....and now they want to export to USA.

I'd die to know all the specs and differences between that 32V 5.4L and the Cobra R's 32 valve.

My understanding is the 5.4L is a taller engine then the 4.6L.
(dumb Ford----all SBC are virtually identical dimensions)

I could have sworn i saw those yellow Mustangs before - as conversion kits for the current Mustang. I remember thinking, "oh thats interesting, considering the future mustang is going to look a bit like that too"


I'll go swing by Barns and NObels to see if they still have that magazine, but I doubt it..

Originally posted by Ken S
I could have sworn i saw those yellow Mustangs before - as conversion kits for the current Mustang. I remember thinking, "oh thats interesting, considering the future mustang is going to look a bit like that too"


I'll go swing by Barns and NObels to see if they still have that magazine, but I doubt it..

I've seen it as some kit or conversion car too. Some company does them. I just don't have the link with me. I think it utilizes a fox chassis and a modified 5.0. It's an already existing car, and not some new Mustang or 2005.

What have I been saying for the past few months? He he

See ya later guionM...I'm headed for basic...

Shoot me an email around May 1st...would love to hear if my predections are following schedule.

Originally posted by bulldoguav
What have I been saying for the past few months? He he

See ya later guionM...I'm headed for basic...

Shoot me an email around May 1st...would love to hear if my predections are following schedule.

Have fun! Don't let the DIs get to ya! :D

To add to this I read in the cars section of a newspaper yesterday that four Falcons are in (Dearborn)? for evaulation.

Originally posted by ProudPony
(PS - to guionM, these were taken at California Speedway... you haven't seen these cars on a trailer out there somewhere have you? Seems that ALL the new Mustang development is happening out there dude!)


I live in the same city as the speedway (CA). guionM is about 100 miles south so I doubt they'd swing that way unless they took the long way home.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen much of anything. I imagine they use the covered trailers. :(

Originally posted by MunchE
I live in the same city as the speedway (CA). guionM is about 100 miles south so I doubt they'd swing that way unless they took the long way home.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen much of anything. I imagine they use the covered trailers. :(

Cool enough.

I find it interesting how big a role California plays in the Mustang's life. Since the beginning, Cali has been the home to more Mustangs than any other state by far, with Florida coming in second. Cali claims over 20% of all Mustang sales!:eek:

The '05 concepts were designed and modeled in Cali too.

I know these cars were not factory-backed or anything, but my point is the likeness to the '05 concepts and the BOSS logos all over them, and the obvious racing intent. We know that some aftermarket suppliers have been given access to the concept cars to begin development of "goodies" to have ready when the car is available. We also know that the production versions have been prototyped and seen by aftermarket suppliers too. It is my contention that the cars in those images were done by someone who knew what the '05 was gonna look like a year before we did and got busy with it. I am also speculating that the same person may know something about the BOSS that we do not yet know - at least in so far as Ford has let them know. Plans change - we all know that - but I'm seeing too much similarity and coincidence in the recent press statements (which are facts) and what this car group displayed 8 months ago.
Some people have access to info way before we do... some keep good secrets, some don't. :think:

I admit, I'm trying to read the perverbial "crystal ball" here, but heck that's what makes it all so fun! ;)

Forty-Niner was designed out here too. :)

I know where GM's design studio out here is, but where is Ford's?

Yup, it looks like the 05 alright. Its has its retro-rific looks.

Originally posted by guionM
I know where GM's design studio out here is, but where is Ford's?

Good question guionM... I live on the wrong edge of the water! ;)

Here's a quick snibbit to start from...
"In concert with plans for the all-new Mustang, due in 2004, the exterior and interior designs of the Mustang GT concepts were penned by designers in Ford’s Living Legends Studio in Dearborn, Mich., and Ford’s California Design Center in Southern California. The concept design execution was done exclusively at the California Design Center."

That clip came from HERE. (http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/mustanggt_concept.asp)

I'll have to do a little "insider research" from the house this weekend and see if I can get an address on the Design Center.

I'll post if I get a chance and find anything.

Sometimes I get pretty irked because I live amidst all kinds of suppliers for the car, but never get to actually go to places like the design center 'cause they are all so friggin' far away! Oh well.:rolleyes:

ProudPony, I know where the design center is. I read an article that told where it was designed, and it was in Valencia, CA. That's actually my home city! Valencia is the rich district of the city of Santa Clarita. Many people call it Valencia as if it is its own city. Before that article, I didn't know we had a design center in my city, but it is growing up very fast. I'd be 99% sure then it is located in the industrial park just east of the 5N near Magic Mountain. That may help you a little.

Here is a pic.Now you all can jump and say "oh lord another photoshop" but I know for a god given fact that this is 97% correct.It is obviously the 05 but you can see on how close the real thing is to the concept.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~pbiro/2005GT-Boomer4.jpg

The one thing that is wrong is he played with the wheelbase a lil bit.And the lower portion of the rear bumper is inaccurate.;)

Actually that doesn't look like the 05. It looks like that was based on the supposed "cad blueprints" for the 2005 that circulated the web for a while and were just modiefied versions of the current mustang.

Originally posted by Burmite
Actually that doesn't look like the 05. It looks like that was based on the supposed "cad blueprints" for the 2005 that circulated the web for a while and were just modiefied versions of the current mustang.

You may think they were just modified versions.BUT in fact they are early renditions.That have had extensive modifications done to it.The biggest problem they had with the new S197 was the green house.They had to change it just to change it again to solve issues regaurding engineering and safety.There are 3 people total on the net with a true pic of the new S197.Well that I know of other then the early CAD pic.So believe me I know all about this car.Im sure you all can agree I have a fond intrest with the Blue Oval.Which only makes sense I work for Ford.;)
Oh 1 more thing,The "real" pic will not be on the net.Only a selected few have and will see it until the car comes out.
Proud Pony is sharp but when it comes to the design and look of this new Mustang I have him beat.:D

Here is a pick which is a better pick for being close to the close to the 2005.grill changes "fake" scoop removal.Rear side window added.
linky 1 (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p5cec6f3542de33bd8e9908a91925de68/fcd10c2c.jpg)

linky 2 (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p6eb8f2e2b859a0377707ae72ec22b798/fcd14883.jpg)

As I said in my preivious post,The green house was changed and youll see that "most" of the car compared to the CAD images is the same.Minus the rear overhang/bumper area.:cool:

Any1 else think the current car looks better?! *DOH* 67 again. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by IZ28
Any1 else think the current car looks better?! *DOH* 67 again. :rolleyes:

Everyone entitled to an OPINION.But the new car will sell as good as the current one.:p :D

Originally posted by guess who
Here is a pick which is a better pick for being close to the close to the 2005.grill changes "fake" scoop removal.Rear side window added.
linky 1 (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p5cec6f3542de33bd8e9908a91925de68/fcd10c2c.jpg)

linky 2 (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p6eb8f2e2b859a0377707ae72ec22b798/fcd14883.jpg)

As I said in my preivious post,The green house was changed and youll see that "most" of the car compared to the CAD images is the same.Minus the rear overhang/bumper area.:cool: too bad about the green house,thats the part i liked.

just think the neg. impact that the sales will get from people on this forum is 0%:D ;)

A second thought (while your so jumpy to be snobby about this)
the percentage of the Camaro being here to witness the rebirth of a old friend from peoples words in this board is 0% as well.:p

And just think I wasnt even hitting on the F'ed body :rolleyes:

You may start flaming now:cool:

Originally posted by guess who
But the new car will sell as good as the current one.:p :D

Maybe for the 1st year or so........

Damn non-disclosure agreements.

Sorry to go off into never never land with our immature friend there.I was just trying to be nice and fill you guys in on some things that I know regaurding the 05.
I really didnt want to degrade the Mustangs lost buddy like that.:confused:

Either way you have more info regaurding it.I hope that it fills your need for info/DIRT on the subject.I will chime in when neccesary.;)

Going off the handle is immature. ;) Making a comment about a retro design and how the current car looks better is not. If any1 can't see that car is blatant retro or that this will probably not be good in the long term, then I just don't know. Most younger GT buyers that bought them because of their more up to date and edgy looks aren't gonna want a car from 67 thats slightly more rounded, and that looks wierd IMO anyway.

Originally posted by IZ28
Going off the handle is immature. ;) Making a comment about a retro design is not.

saying a car wont sell because you cant buy a Fbody is immature.
A mature person would not try and start a childish flame.
Besides do you think Ford asked potential chevy buyers if they liked it?Hell some chevy guys love it.Some are already planning on buying it.So your comments are useless

HAve you even seen the concept in person?Your not wanting to put your location in your profile.And a younger crowd will love then new car.Why you might ask.Because their fathers most likely had a 60's Mustang and they want to enjoy the same feelings their father had.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, looks are looks, it would be stupid to buy a car for a reason like that. You should buy a car because you like it. The F-Body not being in production anymore has nothing to do with my comments or opinion on this. ;) I never liked 4th Gens and most 2nd Gens either.

Originally posted by IZ28
Maybe for the 1st year or so........

I think the 2005 will prove your post wrong:D. I have to ask though, what are you basing this speculation off?

Just because some over-feminized beetle, underpowered, overweight, and overpriced thunderbird, and the fugly PT cruiser didn't sell well doesn't mean that the mustang won't. Saying that a mustang won't sell well because a Beetle or PT cruiser didn't is almost laughable considering neither is a Mustang caliber vehicle. All these other vehicles had flaws and shortcomings that went beyond their retro styling. Heck, the Sn95 mustangs and the 4th gen both had futuristic/modern styling, yet 1 outsold the other two combined 3 to 1. Could you explain that? Yes the 2005 is retro, but it's also unmistakenly modern and good looking. If they give it a modern chassis and a bevy of good performance options (which they will), i'd say Ford pulled the next gen mustang off really nicely.

If they actively market, have special editions, keep the prices competitively affordable, offer a variety of engine and performance options, and do what they're currently doing now, i don't see why the sales #'s would drop. It'll easily sell 120,000+units year after year.

I don't think sales will be only good for the first year -

The Beetle isn't true to its original mission: its not a cheap car, is FWD and feminine. I wouldn't call it a failure though, they have sold over 350,000 of them and without the sales figures, I'd wager that they sell more beetles than Golfs here in the USA.

The T-Bird was originally a competitor to the Corvette. Although the styling was more relaxed, there were supercharged performance versions. The new T-Bird isn't exceptional in any way, other than the looks.

The PT cruiser isn't based on a particular model. Sales have dropped off a lot, but I think it still sells well in its class.

The Mustang is a unique case - it is true to its original mission, will have the performance to back up the looks and uses several styling cues that have been used on and off for over 30 years. It also has a more loyal following than any of those other cars. Of course, sales will drop off after the first or second year - everybody will want it when its new - retro or not - but I think it will be a consitent high seller.

(BTW, the 'futuristic' 4th gen sales started plummeting after 2-3 years)

I would 100% agree with your post minus the T-Bird comments.
A lil insight.The T-bird was a luxo sport coupe/vert when it came out.It started the market that the Vette followed the bird til 63 when the Vette became a Vette.From there is where they both went seperate ways.But right now the T-Bird is "BACK" to its roots.
If Chevy goes back to the Vettes roots you chevy guys would be pissed.The Bird as it is now is a nice car,But people have to think what made the Bird a Bird in the first place and that is the formula that it is using right now.
Im not flaming ya bud just showing you a diff. side is all.:)

Of course the F*rd or M*stang guys are gonna stick up for it, but I think this car's sales are gonna look alot like the 4th Gens' except the 1st year will be good. I can't find another dude in their early 20's also that likes it. They all like the current car better too, the 1 that looks the way it should and not retro. ;) I still say, I'd like to see what a real 05 M*stang would have looked like instead over the done-over 67 retro concept.

I mean I don't like F*rd or the M*stang at all, the only thing I'm concerned about is what GM might think if the M*stang doesn't sell or keep selling. It might make them change their minds about bringing back the Camaro.

With your post it is all the reason why you shouldnt of came in here to post your opionion when noone was being a dik about things.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by IZ28
Of course the F*rd or M*stang guys are gonna stick up for it, but I think this car's sales are gonna look alot like the 4th Gens' except the 1st year will be good. I can't find another dude in their early 20's also that likes it. They all like the current car better too, the 1 that looks the way it should and not retro. ;) I still say, I'd like to see what a real 05 M*stang would have looked like instead over the done-over 67 retro concept.

I mean I don't like F*rd or thr M*stang at all, the only thing I'm concerned about is what GM might think if the M*stang doesn't sell or keep selling. It might make them change their minds about bringing back the Camaro.

I can't help but notice that you always say everyone you know agrees with your opinions. Always.

Every single person you know doesn't like the GTO or the new Mustang and thinks that Z28 should be the top model and whatever else you're campaigning for...

Yeah, ok.

Originally posted by IZ28
,I still say, I'd like to see what a real 05 M*stang would have looked like instead over the done-over 67 retro concept.



Just curious, what would a "real" '05 Mustang look like?

IZ28, it wouldn't matter what a non retro inspired 2005 Mustang would look like. You'd hate it anyways because "it's a M*****G!!!!! It must be bad!!!" :rolleyes: Let's all be mature car enthusiasts and give credit where credit is due. This should be irregardless whether you have no bias towards any auto manufactuer or whether you are so blinded by brand loyalty that you hate anything without a Chevy bowtie on it like you would hate cancer. The 2005 Mustang is going to be an incredible car and I very much look forward to seeing it on the street. Oh, and yes, I'm not a Ford guy either and I grew up in a whole Chevy family.

Originally posted by IZ28
Of course the F*rd or M*stang guys are gonna stick up for it...

I'm not a "FORD" guy, I'm a CAR enthusiast. But considering the differences in how Ford is treating Mustang Fans vs. GM's treatment of Camaro fans, its easy to stick up for them - especially when they heading in the right direction.

BTW, there were lots of people of all ages crowding the display at NAIAS.

Originally posted by WERM
BTW, there were lots of people of all ages crowding the display at NAIAS.

Let's not forget the latest cz28 poll here where 37 members said they would buy it, 15 said they'd consider buying it if they liked how it drove, and only 21 said they wouldn't buy it. So out of 73 member who voted, 71% said they would consider buying it. That's coming from F-bod guys. Here's the link. http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84520


I also remember the overwhelming positive response it's been receiving on every board from Honda boards to VW and Bmw boards. These are mostly guys who aren't even a fan of the current mustang or Ford's or domestics in general.

From the looks of it, young and old will like the 2005 mustang. It has been by far the hottest concept this year.

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Let's not forget the latest cz28 poll here where 37 members said they would buy it, 15 said they'd consider buying it if they liked how it drove, and only 21 said they wouldn't buy it. So out of 73 member who voted, 71% said they would consider buying it. That's coming from F-bod guys. Here's the link. http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84520


I also remember the overwhelming positive response it's been receiving on every board from Honda boards to VW and Bmw boards. These are mostly guys who aren't even a fan of the current mustang or Ford's or domestics in general.

From the looks of it, young and old will like the 2005 mustang. It has been by far the hottest concept this year.

MANY have said things the way they should.I have to :bow: to all of you who have said things as they should have regaurding IZ28's post's.I have a short fuse most of the time and tend to over look other peoples stupidity.;) :cool: :D

What???

I've been gone for a while. Did I miss another title bout here? ;)

People I know agree with me probably about stuff because they are around the same age. (and have sence :D ;)) I feel this car is going to appeal to a higher age group. Yes I dislike it because its a F*rd and a M*stang, but did I not say that the current car looks better?? I REALLY dislike the 05 because its retro and is a car that is supposed to appeal to younger people more. (not people that had the originals back in the day that probably won't buy 1 now) The 05 should have been a progression of the design direction that the car was going in and that made them a sales winner. Now they are going in the other direction instead. The designer of the car is a moron that only does retro, uninspiring designs. He said himself it's mostly based on 67's and cars from then!! I can't reply to every1's comments but lets just see how this style is selling a few years from now. This could be the M*stangs 4th Gen. They are going from a current time edgy design to a wierd looking retro car. I just care about GM's want to bring the Camaro back, and I think the M*stang selling good is a big factor.

How old are u again?I know many people in their 20's(Im in my 20's) and they love the new design.They are not blind to see it is a miixture of old and new.Yeah anyone can clearly see that your pissed that the F bod is gone.It is time to get over it dont ya think?And no this new Mustang wont be in the same catergory as your 4th gen.Why?you might ask?Because FORD loves this car more then ch*vy loves the Ca*aro and just as much as the General loves his Vette.

OK guess who you're right. ;) :rolleyes: There's no sence in discussing anything with you because you are 1 of those people that makes it impossible. You really need to read what people say in their posts better. And you need to not be so quick to just go wacky at other's opinions.

Originally posted by IZ28
OK guess who you're right. ;) :rolleyes: There's no sence in discussing anything with you because you are 1 of those people that makes it impossible. You really need to read what people say in their posts better. And you need to not be so quick to just go wacky at other's opinions.

Ok here it goes.AGAIN. This thread didnt ask for YOUR opionion.
guionM was clearly stating what engines are coming and so forth.
It wouldnt hurt my feelings if you didnt reply in this thread again.

guionM----Sorry for all this stupidity.
This thread ended up just like the rest of the threads on Z28.OFF TOPIC:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It started about engines but then changed to looks and where they came from or something, by I think ProudP. Anyway, I'm done with the retro 05 in this post so it can get back to whatever. Still IMO the current car looks better and will sell better, thats all I really wanted to say I guess. :)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so how about we get back on topic? :)

Is the Mach-1 still a 1 or 2 year type deal or will it become the intermediate v8 between the base v8 the GT and the upscale Cobra?

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so how about we get back on topic? :)

Is the Mach-1 still a 1 or 2 year type deal or will it become the intermediate v8 between the base v8 the GT and the upscale Cobra? i hope the mach 1 stays,can you imagin a 05 with a shaker hood.:metal:

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so how about we get back on topic? :)

Is the Mach-1 still a 1 or 2 year type deal or will it become the intermediate v8 between the base v8 the GT and the upscale Cobra?
As of right now the MACH1 is here til the end of 04.In 05 they are scheduling the BOSS to return.:D ;)

I can agree with the shaker scoop being on the 05 though:metal: :metal:

Originally posted by guess who
As of right now the MACH1 is here til the end of 04.In 05 they are scheduling the BOSS to return.:D ;)

I can agree with the shaker scoop being on the 05 though:metal: :metal:

Things must have changed! The last I heard, Mach1 was to be a 1 year car, this fall or winter the Boss was to be a limited production model riding out the current car, and the Mach was to return on the next car as a permanent edition.

I haven't looked into anything Ford's doing for a couple of months. Guess I'm really out of date there. :(

OMG !!!! look at these 5.4 boss motors :EEK:

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines3.jpg
http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines1.jpg
http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines2.jpg

Originally posted by Ude-lose
OMG !!!! look at these 5.4 boss motors :EEK:

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines3.jpg
http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines1.jpg
http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/bossengines2.jpg i wonder if they will fit in my moms escort.

IZ28, I think we're kinda "buds" in here. We agree on several things, like the late '80's IROC styling and such. So based on that connection, I gotta pipe-in a little about this debate (or debacle:rolleyes: ) that has gone on for the last day or two. Don't put on your flamesuit - you don't need it, but please read what I have posted below with an open mind.
Thanks.


Originally posted by IZ28
I REALLY dislike the 05 because its retro and is a car that is supposed to appeal to younger people more. (not people that had the originals back in the day that probably won't buy 1 now)
Totally acceptable statement. I take it as your opinion and I can respect it for that.

Originally posted by IZ28 The 05 should have been a progression of the design direction that the car was going in and that made them a sales winner. Now they are going in the other direction instead.
Totally acceptable statement. I take it as your opinion and I can respect it for that.

Originally posted by IZ28
The designer of the car is a moron that only does retro, uninspiring designs. He said himself it's mostly based on 67's and cars from then!!
Totally your opinion, and I MUST take it for that, because Ford execs, VW execs, and over 80% of people at the NAIAS displays disagree with you. That "moron" has ALREADY made his mark on the entire auto industry in the last few years. He's wealthy, and he is sought after for his skills. If that's what it takes to be a moron, then color me moronic - please.
THIS (http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_047713) does not look retro to me...
And here he stands withANOTHER (http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_047111) "retro" design?
Dude, I'm not flamin' off on you by any means, but if you think either of those two images are retro, we seriously need to talk.
The guy does pretty good work IMO. He can be original and modern when that is prudent. He also has appreciation for a models history, and recognizes it when significant. In the case of Mustang, right or wrong, he has given the Mustang-buying public what they asked for. I should know. ;)

Originally posted by IZ28
I can't reply to every1's comments but lets just see how this style is selling a few years from now. This could be the M*stangs 4th Gen.
You forget... Ford actually gives a sh1+ about the Mustang. They won't neglect it for a decade like happened to the F-cars - guaranteed. Even if sales start to slump a little by 2008 (which is normal a few years after a new intro), Ford will be working with the people to generate the next model and incorporate changes that the buying-public wants at that time. Mustang sales have only slipped below the 100k mark for 2 years ('91 and '92) since it's inception 39 years ago, and those 2 years were on a 10-y/o platform, and during the recession of the Persian Gulf conflict to boot. If I were a betting man (and I am;) ) I wouldn't bet on the Mustang dying like the F4. After all, Bill Ford, Jr would choose a red Mustang convertible as his 1 sole car if that was all he could have... :D

Originally posted by IZ28
I just care about GM's want to bring the Camaro back, and I think the M*stang selling good is a big factor.
On this, we both agree. But I would like to add that I want the Camaro back as much for it's history as for it's future. If it comes back as something totally unrelated to the Camaro I know and relate to, I would rather it be called a Panther, MegaStorm, SuperCav or something else. :rolleyes:

Gotta chime in here (bound to happen soon or later, right?).

I agree 100% with everything Proudpony wrote. J. Mays isn't a moron, is sought after by every single major car company.

Also, you will be surprized to know that Bob Lutz & many GM executives and designers also PRAISED Mustang's design. The public enthusiasm has been fantastic, and IZ28, I don't know where you find those "every one you talk to people", but it seems that even alot of people on this thread are actually considering this new Mustang as their next car, gen 5 Camaro notwithstanding. Styling is subjective, and your opinion on style is just as valid as everyone else's, but much of what you say contradicts what really has taken place.

I'll pour a little gas on the fire:

I spent about 3.5 to 4 hours at the Cleveland Auto Show Saturday....

There was always a small group of people around the Silver Mustang Concept coupe, but nonetheless, it always had some people checking it out... but Ford's display was right at the front of the show at the entrance/exit... prime territory.

The car that was getting by far the most attention and crowd ... was.... ready?? The Cadillac XLR. And the Cadillac Cien (which I was glad to see there) also had a steady crowd. Cadillac's display was on the far back side of GM's display... oddly enough, about as far as you could get from the entrance/exit of the show and still be in GM's display.

I did several loops of the floor to get a look at the crowds a few times...

Originally posted by guionM
Things must have changed! The last I heard, Mach1 was to be a 1 year car, this fall or winter the Boss was to be a limited production model riding out the current car, and the Mach was to return on the next car as a permanent edition.

I haven't looked into anything Ford's doing for a couple of months. Guess I'm really out of date there. :(

Please accept the following quotes from some of my "associates" as evidence aligning my position on my previous post about 04 Mach 1 existance... (in other words... here's what my inside bro's are saying!)

"The 04 Mach 1 which has been rumored will be merely a continuation of this production model. I.E. no motor or transmission or suspension changes. I received this information about two months ago. "He" hinted at the possibility of a few more colors being available but no definates on what those might be. "

"There have been a couple of people here who got mail/email from Ford executives for other reasons, but those replies included mention that the Mach I will be continued for 2004. "

I have it that the '04 will happen, in just about the same quantities and style as the '03 did. The question falls on the '05 models... BOSS or MACH 1 for '05? That's what leads me to researching the BOSS for '05... it's a nicer "fit" for the body style change and new model rollout IMO.

PS - Ude, where'd ya get dem pics!!!! Did YOU snap those? Was that a warehouse clearance sale or what!?!? :eek: :bow: :D

Proud Pony,He got those pics at stangnet.;)

Originally posted by ProudPony
Totally your opinion, and I MUST take it for that, because Ford execs, VW execs, and over 80% of people at the NAIAS displays disagree with you. That "moron" has ALREADY made his mark on the entire auto industry in the last few years. He's wealthy, and he is sought after for his skills. If that's what it takes to be a moron, then color me moronic - please.
THIS (http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_047713) does not look retro to me...
And here he stands withANOTHER (http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_047111) "retro" design?
Dude, I'm not flamin' off on you by any means, but if you think either of those two images are retro, we seriously need to talk.
The guy does pretty good work IMO. He can be original and modern when that is prudent. He also has appreciation for a models history, and recognizes it when significant. In the case of Mustang, right or wrong, he has given the Mustang-buying public what they asked for. I should know. ;)

Aight, maybe he is not a moron. BUT, I feel any complete retro design on a car like the Camaro, M*stang, Corvette, or any cars that really mean something is moronic. These are cars that set the example of what coolness and fun should be in automobiles in the U.S. and even other countries for that matter. Retro is unoriginal and goes in the wrong direction designwise, and we've seen how it gets percieved and critisized after a while. It should be saved for specialty cars that it might actually serve a purpose on, like the F*rd GT for instance. IMO this is a place where he should have been original and modern. I am ALL for cues and ties to what makes a car what it is, but with some new also.

Examples: Third Gen Camaros, the current M*stang, C4 and C5 Corvette's. They are cars that used new design ideas but kept ties and cues to what makes the car what it is and was. What did that result in for them?? Excellent sales and popularity because they looked ahead and back for their designs, which is the way it should be. It is inspirational and creates success.

You forget... Ford actually gives a sh1+ about the Mustang. They won't neglect it for a decade like happened to the F-cars - guaranteed. Even if sales start to slump a little by 2008 (which is normal a few years after a new intro), Ford will be working with the people to generate the next model and incorporate changes that the buying-public wants at that time.

There were alot of people that cared about the Camaro in GM for years and there are some now, more than when the 4th Gen was in production. It seemed that the guys in charge just didn't care then. So hopefully we won't see BS like that ever again. But the "contract" still has something to do with it all too. I'm talking about there being no 5th Gen ready to take over after the 4th Gen. ProudP, I appreciate being able to discuss things normally with you and some others as usual. :)

Originally posted by guionM
Also, you will be surprized to know that Bob Lutz & many GM executives and designers also PRAISED Mustang's design. The public enthusiasm has been fantastic, I don't know where you find those "every one you talk to people", but it seems that even alot of people on this thread are actually considering this new Mustang as their next car, gen 5 Camaro not withstanding. Styling is subjective, and your opinion on style is just as valid as everyone else's, but much of what you say contradicts what really has taken place.

I think they were more impressed with the publics interest in a mid-size musclecar, which they don't have, and makes them see that the Camaro is worth it. Retro always has alot of fans at 1st, but that goes away after a while quickly. The "every1 I talk to people" would be friends, (who are and aren't car people) and dudes from cruise nights and car shows. I think alot on here (not all) who say that they are interested in the 05 is because its a musclecar and alot know that GM reads these boards and wanna show how much they are intersted in it so GM will bring back the Camaro. Look at all the "forget you GM" or "since you won't build a Camaro" comments in those posts. They are obviously to trying to get GM going already and they know they'll go right back to GM as soon as a 5th Gen is announced or not buy an 05 at all.

;)

Boy one thing your good at is saying something to get yourself pumped.;)

You are one restless camaro guy.I can see you still complaining in 5 years:D

Originally posted by guess who
Proud Pony,He got those pics at stangnet.;)

I don't know where from they came, but I know this...

I'd shave the family jewels on Springer's show for one of those to go in one of my Muskrats... :D

It's not gonna set the world on fire or anything, but I really think that this "new" BOSS motor (if handled right by Ford with aftermarket support, internal parts by FRPP, and some racing exposure) could be as revolutionary and legendary as the 302/5.0 was.
At least until we get fission-propulsion in the car anyways... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by IZ28
I think they were more impressed with the publics interest in a mid-size musclecar, which they don't have, and makes them see that the Camaro is worth it. Retro always has alot of fans at 1st, but that goes away after a while. The "every1 I talk to people" would be friends, (who are and aren't car people) and dudes from cruise nights and car shows. I think alot on here who say that they are interested in the 05 is because its a musclecar and alot know that GM reads these boards and wanna show how much they are intersted in it so GM will bring back the Camaro. Look at all the "forget you GM" or "since you won't build a Camaro" comments in those posts. They are obviously to trying to get GM going already and they know they'll go right back to GM as soon as a 5th Gen is announced or not buy an 05 at all.

;)

Of course! You are on to us!! The ONLY reason anyone here would possibly say they like the new Mustang, or think it looks great is because we want GM to bring back the Camaro, and NOT because it actually is a great or even good design. And those GM executives and designers would never ever praise Mustang's design. They were just prasing the crowd it attracted. :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to slam or flame you, but really listen to what you're saying. You're comming across as someone with a desparate case of denial. Not personally liking the Mustang is fine. Denying that people who say they like Mustang's new style and actually mean it comes across as pretty pathethic. I know that isn't what you are trying to do. Just realize because others have different views than you (and you are obviously in the minority on Mustangs new look) doesn't mean they are wrong & you are right. It happens all the time. I'm probally in the minority believing the new Mustang's NOT retro. I accept it, and move on.

You are right about Mustang getting GM's management pumped for Camaro (at least the ones that count), but think about what you are saying about retro design. You are saying sales are graet at 1st, and then peter out. My friend, ALL designs do that. :D

The Mustang II sold over 300,000 cars the 1st couple of years, the gen 4 F-body sales collapsed after 4 years, Probe 1, 2, & 3 (Cougar) were very successful cars in the begining, as are seemingly every Japaneese sports car attempt. None were retro, all petered out after initial success.

Retro is like every other design in that there are good designs that endure, OK ones that don't, and those what were you thinking designs (see Aztek). The Mini is Retro done right. The Thunderbird is retro done wrong (mostly due to the grill).

Mustang by all means looks like it's going to be a run away success. Retro or not, and regardless as to the people you talk to. And it won't be a "girls" car anymore.

And I disagree with you on this. ;) :) Theres lots of stuff we agree on such as Z28 and I think the GTO, but not here. I am not changing my view on this. We'll see how things go in a few years.

Originally posted by IZ28
And I disagree with you on this. ;) :) Theres lots of stuff we agree on such as Z28 and I think the GTO, but not here. I am not changing my view on this. We'll see how things go in a few years.

No need to change your view (we need some differences to keep things interesting around here ;) ).

Of course. :) :D

Originally posted by guionM
The Mini is Retro done right. T

The Mini isn't retro. ;)

Originally posted by WERM
The Mini isn't retro. ;)

... and neither is Thunderbird, damn it! :D

Really, the Mini isn't. It was the replacement for the last Mini, which remained in production until shortly before the new version. There was a gap because the new one wasn't ready in time. It looks like the model it replaced... like a new honda accord looks like its predessor. See... not retro. :)

Hello Callers!!!
Welcome to the Frazier Crane Show!
So we've arranged this digital forum today to discuss dimentia and denial, and how they relate to development of future vehicles. How interesting!
I'm listening...



:D

I'm going to go O-T and just throw this question out into the open. This was an interview with Coletti. My question is, Cosworth will be coming to out shores according to rumores. Is Ford going to position it above SVT or am i reading into the below quote wrong? They said a "very serious performance machine", any hints on what this machine is? i don't think it's the GT/40. Could it be another limited edition high-performance Mustang, or an all new breed of sports car which is yet to be revealed? From the sounds of it, we're talking about a car with beyond 500+ horses.

Q: What's Ford going to do with the Cosworth brand?

A: Cosworth is a prized brand we have. We are looking for an application in a product that is very unique, a very serious machine. The serious discussion within the company right now is why would we have Cosworth as even another brand above and beyond the SVTs. When you have SVT models sporting 400 to 500 hp, Cosworth has to be applied to a very serious performance machine.


The rest of the interview can be found here. http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=00834102

I could see (finally) a true like-class, like-cost competitor to the Vette and Viper using Cosworth power and Jag-designed platform and bodywork. It may/may not be sold under the Ford brand or even the SVT line. It's not too far out of reach.

To me, Cosworth and Mustang DO NOT go in the same sentence. One represents a no-holds-barred, cost-don't-matter performance line, while the other represents good performance at a very economical price. The SVT, Saleen, Roush and other tuned models represent the highest end of what the Muastang can be before violating it's own definition. So based on each one's history, I just don't see them encroaching on each other.

Originally posted by ProudPony
I could see (finally) a true like-class, like-cost competitor to the Vette and Viper using Cosworth power and Jag-designed platform and bodywork. It may/may not be sold under the Ford brand or even the SVT line. It's not too far out of reach.

To me, Cosworth and Mustang DO NOT go in the same sentence. One represents a no-holds-barred, cost-don't-matter performance line, while the other represents good performance at a very economical price. The SVT, Saleen, Roush and other tuned models represent the highest end of what the Muastang can be before violating it's own definition. So based on each one's history, I just don't see them encroaching on each other.

Does Cobra R fit the bill of a no-holds-barred performance car? Maybe they'll transfer it from SVT to Cosworth.

I too am hoping it's something new and not the Mustang. Some 2 seater with the 427ci 590hp v10:) would be nice. Heck, even a lighter weight 2 seater with the Cobra's powerplant would do. That'd make for a decent c6 competitor.

Ford+Cosworth=F1.

Maybe a Cosworth Focus.Which is rumored to be coming.Maybe Cosworth can be SVT on steroids;)
I know Cosworth had helped with the development with the mod motors.It could be coming to fill the gap for Lincoln/Mercury.SVT doesnt want to have "their" engines in other non-SVt products.Mainly what they are using currently.Which holds true because the MACH1/Marauder use the 99/01 cobra engine.The only one to sneek in is the Silverado SS pounder:p (I know very low blow but I HAD to guys) Harley Davidson F150 which has less hp then the L.

Originally posted by WERM
Really, the Mini isn't. It was the replacement for the last Mini, which remained in production until shortly before the new version. There was a gap because the new one wasn't ready in time. It looks like the model it replaced... like a new honda accord looks like its predessor. See... not retro. :)

I think that's known as a loophole. :D