Lets talk fuel

I was just thinking that basically nitrous adds O2 to your motor. More O2 means a hotter burn....which means more power. I was wondering if there was some kind of chemical that you could add to your fuel that when it burns it releases O2. I'm not talking octain here, I'm just wondering if there was some way to get a O2 enriched gas. Anyone every heard of this kind of thing or such?

Tim

Sure.... "emissions" gasoline, loaded with "oxygenates"...... methanol (50% oxygen), ethanol (35% oxygen), TAME, MTBE, etc..

I was thinking of something more on the line of some chemical that we could add to the gas that when it burns it releases oxygen. I doubt there is any performance advantage in the "emisions" gas.:p There has to be some kind of chemical out there that its by product is oxygen when it is ignited. What is TAME, MTBE, etc.?

Originally posted by 95Bird
I was just thinking that basically nitrous adds O2 to your motor. More O2 means a hotter burn....which means more power.

Tim

this is true.....but the bulk of your power from nitrous is in the drop of temperature in the combustion chamber

Originally posted by 89ProchargedROC
this is true.....but the bulk of your power from nitrous is in the drop of temperature in the combustion chamber

The increased power from N2O come form the additional fuel you are able to burn. Any power adder (Turbo, Super Charger, N2O) works under the same principle. By adding more oxygen to the cylinder through force or chemical reaction you can add, and burn, more fuel. More fuel means more energy released and higher cylinder pressures. It's not that the burn is hotter it is larger. The cooling effect of N2O is a secondary benefit that allows a denser charge and even more oxygen.

Back to the origional question. Yes there are chemicals that can be added to gas to increase oxygen in the cylinders. I can't remember the name right now but there was a chemical that was showing up at NHRA events a few years back. It is very dangerous to work with and can cause big problems for you if you get any on your skin. It was outlawed and is now part of the standard fuel check NHRA runs. I will write back when I remember the name.

Nitropropane.... It will add an amazing amount of HP, but it's such an evil substance. If your not right on the timing and fuel flow, your gonna burn pistons and break ring lands.... Not something I would recommend for an LT-1.

-Shannon

Originally posted by 95Bird
I was thinking of something more on the line of some chemical that we could add to the gas that when it burns it releases oxygen. I doubt there is any performance advantage in the "emisions" gas.:p There has to be some kind of chemical out there that its by product is oxygen when it is ignited. What is TAME, MTBE, etc.?

Not sure what you define as a "chemical"...... everything is a "chemical" in one form or another.

Yes, when you burn methanol you free up oxygen that can be combined with hydrocarbons to produce energy. IF they added appreciable amounts of methanol to gasoline, AND you adjusted the fuel delivery system to handle the revised volume requirements, AND adjusted the programming for the revised stoichiometry, you would produce more power.

With "emissions" gasoline, none of these steps is taken.... quantity of additives is limited (too much and you would have severe corrosion problems), the excess oxygen is just allowed to leave the engine and reduce pollutants in the exhaust, and the excess oxygen actually reduces your fuel mileage by causing the computer to add extra, unneeded fuel.... sort of wasting fuel to clean up the air... typical of "government" thinking.

Many oxygenates also provide the side benefit of octane improvement.

MTBE is methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether

TAME is tertiary amyl-methyl ether.

Other oxygenates include:

ETBE = ethyl-tertiary-butyl-ether
TABE = tertiary amyl-butyl ether
TBA = tertiary butyl alcohol
Isopropyl alcohol
Isobutyl alcohol

So basically we need something that releases more energy when it is ignited. A bigger "explosion" and more power. There has to be something out there that we can add to our current fuel delevery system that will cause the desired results. Could the same be done if we had a chemical that burned at a higher temp than what is normally in gas? More energy = more power.

Am I trying to build a bomb...or trying to make more power? Maybe a bunch of little bombs in each cyl. :p

What about the zylene stuff the turbo boys use. Is it just an octain boost or does it do what we are talking about?

Originally posted by 95Bird

What about the zylene stuff the turbo boys use. Is it just an octain boost or does it do what we are talking about?

From what I understand, Xylene is a highly refined fuel that's somewhere around 118-120 octane and roughly $5 a gallon. I was using it on my old motor with heads/cam/n2o, but it seemed to fluck-up the o2 sensors after a little while. It'll also eat plastic fuel lines, so you have to mix it with a few oz of Marvel Mystery Oil :D

Ghetto Race-Fuel :D

Mike

Originally posted by 95Bird
So basically we need something that releases more energy when it is ignited. A bigger "explosion" and more power. There has to be something out there that we can add to our current fuel delevery system that will cause the desired results. Could the same be done if we had a chemical that burned at a higher temp than what is normally in gas? More energy = more power.



Those things are out there. You have Nitropropane as mentioned above and other fuels that you can use such as Nitromethane for an extreme example. All of which would require fuel system changes and PCM calibration.

If you are looking to add power you will get the most benefit out of the standard power adders out there.

Like Red said, the more fuel you can feed into the engine (keeping the proper air/fuel mixture), the more power you can produce. A naturally asperated engine is just an air pump. There's only so much air the engine can suck in to mix with the fuel. Using a power adder increases the incoming air so that more fuel can be burnt.

Propylene Oxide is banned in most NHRA classes.

Of course you do have to take into consideration the fact of the amount of work involved versus the gains. You could run straight methanol with a little top end lube added and make more power. But, with methanol, you need approximatly twice as much fuel to do it correctly. That means your going to get about 10 MPG. Then there is the fact it's very corrosive to metal parts. I've been using straight meth for years now in our racing go-karts and it works fine as long as you bump up the timing, go to a colder plug, re-jet the carb, and flush the fuel system with gas after every weekend of racing. We have also used a large mix of meth, nitro meth and about 2% water to slightly dilute.

I would honestly concentrate on bigger things for a street car :)

-Shannon