Ignition unit New Delteq opti Delayed / another optispark replacement?

New unit Does it all.Sr didn't like something on the optisolution so he changed it.So it is delayed a bit.But this unit does it all heres some pics its HUGE as you can see!! Http://www.hpworks.com/delteq.html As soon as the Optisolution is done you will be the first too know

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lil Japanese car BIG American motor
www.speakeasy.net/~lt1240z

http://www.delteq.com/products_opti.htm

anyone heard of these guys or used them? the information seems pretty thorough.

anyone care to explain technically why or why not this would be a good option.

the do-it-yourself kit is $350, which seems a lot better than buying a dynaspark, or LTCC.

Wow this seems pretty interesting it looks like its worth looking into.

Interesting

Here is their website.

http://www.delteq.com

Here is the LT1 OPTI-PLUS & OPTI-DIRECT IGNITION SYSTEM:

http://www.delteq.com/products_opti.htm

Anyway, just got an email from a friend on this and thought I would pass it along to all you faithful LT1 owners out there.

Nice to have choices for our motors. :)

Niffty, but not the most cost effective solution. I'd definately take the LTCC box over the "Opti Direct" setup, though the "Opti Plus" setup is a different story, since it totally does away with the opti.

At the same time, the cost isn't exactly friendly.

Merging this thread with the other Deteq thread that was just made in this forum...

recieved an email from Delteq very quickly after sending it to them. here is what they had to say about the DIY kits (the $350 kit compared to the $600-800 complete kit).

Thanks for your interest!

The 102-9001 & 102-9002 kits only include the following:
Delteq Opti Box
plug-and-play wiring harness
coil bracketry
firing order stickers
detailed instructions
These kits require the user to source the ignition module and coils from a 4-coil Cadillac Northstar or Olds Aurora V8. Since there are plenty of those cars in the salvage yards now, it is relatively easy to get these parts. Basically, 102-9001 & 9002 are low-cost options for those who don't want to spend the extra money on new parts. Also, the 9001 and 9002 kits only come with a valve-cover coil pack mount...the F-Body radiator-shroud mount can be purchased separately for a small upcharge.

For those who want everything brand new and custom-made to a vehicle, the complete kits are the way to go. Everything is bolt-on with the complete kits, and all the parts are brand-new straight from Delphi (the manufacturer of the ignition module). Since the most expensive items in the kits are the ignition modules and coils, the price of the complete kits is quite a bit higher than the 102-9001 and 9002 kits. Included with the complete kits are the following items:

Delteq Opti-Box
4 Coils
Delphi Ignition Module
Custom Brackets for the Ignition Module/Coil Assembly (includes all fasteners)
Plug-and-Play Wiring Harness (absolutely no cutting, splicing, or modifying!)
Custom-Length Spark Plug Wire Set (8mm silicon carbon core)
Firing Order Stickers
Detailed Instruction Manual

Some more info...
Stage 1 kits are currently in-stock and ready to ship. These units DO NOT require the removal of the opti-spark. You simply use the opti-spark's position sensors to send to the Opti-Box, which then drives the Distributorless Ignition Module. As such, this system is as easy to install as a set of spark plug wires.

Stage 2 kits are not yet available, though we are doing testing for a beta release. Basically, this system replaces the stock trigger wheel and sensors inside the opti-spark with a hall-effect system. Hall effect sensors rely on magnetic sensing rather than optical sensing...as such, they are much more reliable in a dirty automotive environment. We are hoping to have beta test units available in 2 months to more knowledgeable users. Production units will probably arrive in about 4-5 months for everyone else!

Feel free to give us a call. I will probably be able to explain everything over the phone easier than I did in this email!

Best regards,
Pete

--------------------------------------------------
Peter Visser
Mechanical Engineer
DI Development (makers of "Delteq")
2758 Viking Drive
Oak Hill, Virginia 20171
Phone: (703)476-3566
Fax: (703)476-1506
mailto:pvisser@cox.net
http://www.delteq.com

im going to check around at local yards to see if i can get the module/coils for cheap, if so im gonna give this a shot. i was about the replace my opti anyway.

Using only a 4-coil pack indicates it is using a "lost spark" ignition. This would suggest that it might not be able to support full sequential injection..... the problem that ultimately torpedoed the Electromotive "Opti Eliminator/SDI".

Any insight to whether the "add on" basic unit supports sequential - would seem logical that it could, because it is still using the optical sensor?? The question is can the soon-to-be-released Hall effect trigger feed the stock PCM?

Good to have another source, but more info is needed.

Originally posted by Injuneer
Using only a 4-coil pack indicates it is using a "lost spark" ignition. This would suggest that it might not be able to support full sequential injection..... the problem that ultimately torpedoed the Electromotive "Opti Eliminator/SDI".

Any insight to whether the "add on" basic unit supports sequential - would seem logical that it could, because it is still using the optical sensor?? The question is can the soon-to-be-released Hall effect trigger feed the stock PCM?

Good to have another source, but more info is needed.

fred, it would be best to email their guy pvisser@cox.net directly........he responds very promptly. please post what you find out.

Thanks to everyone who was interested in getting more info on out Opti-Spark replacement offerings. To clear up a few questions I have seen so far:

YES, the unit works perfectly with sequential fuel injection. It shares nothing in common with the old Electromotive setup (except that both systems use 4 coils).

Yes, the unit fires two plugs at a time ("waste-spark"). The spark plug undergoing compression consumes about 90%+ of the coil energy, while the plug undergoing exhaust consumes 10% or less of the energy. This is a result of the electrical impedance being much higher at the plug undergoing compression. Essentially, visualize the two spark plugs as two resistors wired in series and connected to a voltage source. If one resistor is much larger than the other (as is the difference between the two spark plug gaps), then most of the energy will dissipate at the higher resistance.
To help fight the small losses associated with the waste-spark plug, the coils are drastically over-built. In fact, most spark plugs will fail by having the arc jump outside the combustion chamber before the coil runs out of energy.

Please feel free to contact us with any questions. I can't monitor all the internet forums out there, but if there is a thread going that needs a response form us, just email me and I will log on.

Best regards,
Pete Visser
Delteq
www.delteq.com
pvisser@cox.net

thanks for coming to the board pete!

a guy from a national autosalvage yard quoted me $100 plus shipping for the northstar Ignition Module and Coil Pack.

so as long as that guy is quoting me on the correct parts, then i could do this whole system for $450.
personally, i think thats an excellent deal, compared to the LTCC or Dynaspark (which both still use the opti dont they?)

im ready to order this kit and give it a shot, but im going to wait for the stage 2 kits to be ready.......maybe i can be one of the beta testers.

maybe this won't add much value to the thread. Mabye a tiny bit.

I just went to HP Works, (Larry Strouth Sr. and Jr.) and saw the system and it is just as described. Visually it looks very high in quality. I met a guy named "JC" who is a partner in all this too. He's had the Opti-plus system on his z28 for 6 months and it's been working well according to him. I saw the z28 and I saw the system, (accept really all you see in the z28 is the opti-box as the coils are hidden under the radiator shroud).

I'm not purchasing yet due to being in the middle of a major cost TH400 conversion. But for $667, I think it would be a great value as an opti replacement. You get the new Northstar ingnition module, 4 Northstar coils, interface plug and play harness, "Opti-box gizmo" (the thing that replaces the LT1 ignition module and coil), plug wires, brackets and instructions. Probably a very good bang for the buck Opti replacement.

JC was still not entirely certain if I could use my Accell 300 CD ingition box and controler for window switches and nitrous retard.

seems like the 1 coil per plug would be ideal but this system is good too and certainly cost less. As said before, it's good to have another opti replacement option.

Karl

Originally posted by quickSS
the coils are hidden under the radiator shroud
Im just curious as to how long the plug wires are with the coils being this far away?

Ken, if I was forced to guess, I'd say the wires were 6 to 8" longer than stock LT1 wires. The coil pack was not at the top of the shroud or else I would have been able to see it. I guess it was 1/2 way down the radiator and on the right-passenger side and that is about the same plane as the actual opti.

I really feel for you fbody guys. You have no elbow room under the hood. I can actually stand in the engine bay and work on my impala ss LT1. rub rub.

Karl

Originally posted by quickSS
I can actually stand in the engine bay and work on my impala ss LT1. rub rub.


oh yeah!........well lets get on the scale and see whos grinnin! :D


well im sold.......im gonna see if i can be a beta tester for the kit.

Interesting. Not going to be a pretty as the LTCC but might be more stable ;)

Interesting to see the name "JC" creep in here..... when I was dealing with the Electromotive O-E/SDI back in the late 90's.... "JC" was the name of the chief engineer a E'motive. I know he has since left there. Is this the same "JC"? He also worked at Hypertech when they were developing the "power programmer" for the LT1. :D

so as long as that guy is quoting me on the correct parts, then i could do this whole system for $450.
personally, i think thats an excellent deal, compared to the LTCC or Dynaspark (which both still use the opti dont they?)

The "Stage 1" kit appears to continue to rely on the Opti optical sensor:

The Delteq Opti-Direct system solves the problems of the Opti-Spark cap and rotor. To do this, a patent-pending Electronic Interface Module (dubbed the "Opti-Box") is mounted in place of the stock ignition module and coil assembly. The signals from the Opti-Spark sensors are sent to the Opti-Box, and signals are generated to drive a multi-coil Direct Ignition (DI) system, which is completely distributorless!
"The Stage 2" option still uses the Opti housing, but replaces the Mitsubishi optical sensor with a Hall-effect sensor:

To accomplish this, the distributor cap and rotor, encoder disk, and optical sensors are removed from the Opti-Spark distributor, and are replaced with a Delteq-designed trigger wheel and sensor assembly.

well just using the opti "shell" is no big deal........as long as the internal are changed.

Ok, here' s the obvious post...

If there's a Z28 out there with this system on it and functioning, then lets see some pics! This sounds very interesting to me as well, as I have been seriously considering the LTCC kit and building a custom distributor (essentially a stubby distributor mounted on the back of the manifold - no egr please :) ). I have been trying to get rid of the opti since the first time I had to replace one. Hate spending that kind of cash on something I KNOW is going to fail..

Dave C.

Dave C,

I promise...once I am done watching all the web forums and I shovel the rest of the snow off the driveway, I will take pic's of JC 96 camaro :) I will try to do it today...

Pete

Sweet :) Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by HOZZ4
Dave C,

I promise...once I am done watching all the web forums and I shovel the rest of the snow off the driveway, I will take pic's of JC 96 camaro :) I will try to do it today...

Pete



Yes yes yes after replacing 4 optis … I am ready to ditch the opti system please get some pictures out as soon as possible also sign me to get your system …… any discounts for being a test dummy. ;) :lol:

Anther question… does this system provide enough spark for a super charger set…?

I may be over my head here but since the '93s dont have sequential injection would it matter for us? But if I were to get a FAST system for my car would that change my batchfire to sequential? I am not completely sold on ditching the opti right not for any reason other than to rev higher.

Originally posted by OneFlyn95z28
Interesting. Not going to be a pretty as the LTCC but might be more stable.

Stable? :confused:

Also, why do some still believe this replaces/removes the opti?

Originally posted by arnie
Stable? :confused:

Also, why do some still believe this replaces/removes the opti?


the stage2 kit does remove the opti.........it just uses the plastic shell to house the new sensors.

it does not have any of the same internal parts anymore, and does not rely on anything from the old opti, except for the plastic housing.

Hmmm, looks like we have a different description for what constitutes replacement then. :) The 'shell' still houses the sensor and associated hardware, and from it, the signal to fire plugs, whether it is the oem optical sensor, or with the hall effect, correct? Like the LTCC conversion, the change is in the spark distribution system. Sounds like we both know what is happening, just describing the fate of the opti differently. :)

Now, for the 'stable' ?.

Well, one way or the other, you're still going to need some type of trigger, and optical pickup in the optispark has (for the most part) never been the problem with it. It's always the rotor button and cap. They stink, and there's little to do about it other than remove the dependancy on them. Sure, you could remove the opti altogether, and mount a hall-effect trigger wheel to the crank, but the problem I ran into when looking into doing that was packaging. It's awfully tight down there, and there's very little room to work (not mention all the crap that it'll have to go through on a street car in daily driving..no thanks...).

About the only problem I HAVE seen with the opti as far as the optical pickup goes is the fact that over time it seems like oil leaches (sp?) into the back of the case (very little mind you) through the two locator pins on the backside of the optical pickup, and if I were to go with something like this, I would just go ahead and tear the thing apart, cut the rotor off (leave the base of course), and put some sealer on the backside of the sensor mount. I think that would essentially seal the thing up for good (as well as epoxy in the plug lead holes and the vacuum holes too).

I've gotten a couple pics of this setup from the makers, and I think I'm going to give it a shot. Since I know I'm going to need a pretty serious ignition system, this looks like a pretty good alternative so far. Only time (and cash of course) will tell...

Dave C.

Arnie I know a few people using the LTCC and that is where the more 'stable' coment came from..I will leave it at that ;)

OH yeah if you replace some thing with a totaly different operation most do say that is an 'Elimination' ;)

I hope this clears things up for you ;)

Two things will make up my mind on this.

First. Reliability. I live in the greater Seattle area and water intrusion and corosion are ALWAYS a problem. This and a High voltage MSD seem to kill my opti every 12k or so.

Second. Looks. I want a clean sanitery stock apperance. Sure I may be packing a big bore stroker with a sheet metal intake BUT I want it to look like the factory put it there not Mutt and Jeff in the shed ;)

My ONLY Problem on this system is the coil packs will be in the way unless I can find room to put them behind the motor on the fire wall.

I do have a new question that may be very easy to answer? Will this system adapt to alternate fireing orders easily?

Later all!

I've seen a couple of stock Mitsubishi optical sensors blinded by rust, coming from the stock carbon steel bearing retainer. And, the stock bearing is not a high quality item. I'm all for using only the optical sensor from the Opti... my setup has been running for 4 years like that..... but I think you need to be accurate when you describe the process..... the Opti has not been "eliminated" in either Stage 1 or Stage 2..... it has been "upgraded".

Semantics.... but accuracy is important if a product is to have credibility.

Originally posted by Injuneer
the Opti has not been "eliminated" in either Stage 1 or Stage 2..... it has been "upgraded".

in stage 1 yes its still optical.........but in stage 2, the optical part is removed and replaced with magnetic..........so does that make it a magnetispark?

Thank you for the correction Fred ;)

I'm just trying to make sure there is no misunderstanding..... my adventures with one of the few Electromotive Opti-Eliminator/SDI units left me a little suspicious of some new products.... and particularly when I see possibly one of the same people involved, and remember how little "customer support" I got from E'motive.

Hey Fred i have had an Idea for a few years but had a question no one has ever answered. It may help a few of us.

Does the 96- SBC Vortec Cam postion sensor(I.E. plastic distributer) send out a compatable signal for a LT1 PCM?

I have worked on a few and have always wondered but never had the time or sources to find out.

IF it does Many of us could convert to this unit ;) HARD part would be setting it. The Vortec is easy to set with a scan tool but we would not have that help on the LT1.

Just and Idea to add to what we all ready have ;)

Then again it woild not eliminate the OPTI per say but move it to a new place ;)

BTW I have yet to see one of thiese fail....I am sure they have but not nearly as often as a LT1 Opti

OneFlyn95z28,
The Vortec plastic distributor only outputs a once-per-cam-revolution pulse via a hall effect sensor.

This will NOT drive an LT1 computer...

-Pete

Originally posted by HOZZ4
OneFlyn95z28,
The Vortec plastic distributor only outputs a once-per-cam-revolution pulse via a hall effect sensor.

This will NOT drive an LT1 computer...

-Pete



Why couldn't someone just adapt a pcm from anther GM model to our cars so that it does not require the input from the opti?

:confused:

I have the unit installed but it is on my Vette. Thought you guys would like to look anyway.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=710111

Originally posted by Maldo
Why couldn't someone just adapt a pcm from anther GM model to our cars so that it does not require the input from the opti?

:confused:

Just get a FAST/gen7dfi etc..

Originally posted by Maldo
Why couldn't someone just adapt a pcm from anther GM model to our cars so that it does not require the input from the opti?

:confused:

How many other sequential EFI, 8-cyl setups does GM sell, other than the LS1? :)

The Opti low res pulse pattern is nothing exotic. I always felt that you could start with the cam position signal from the MSD CPC distributor "stub".... fits fine under the cowl of a 4th GEN.... and do a translation from the MSD signal to the Opti pulse pattern on a chip. Or, put the stock Mitsubishi optical sensor in a pancake distributor housing.

Thank you HOZZ4. Finaly an answer! :D

Here is why I ask

http://groups.msn.com/WashingtonFBodys/twofast4lv.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=530

Not to mention it a Distributor OPTI replacement would let us all run a Standard SBC block!

So if my current opti is having issues would this unit bring my ignition back to life or is it more like to ltcc where it needs a good opti to function?

94-3.4
The "Stage 1" system needs the Opti Sensors to be in place. The cap and rotor, however, are not needed.

OneFlyn95z28
Yes, I have seen people do the old-style distributor on the LT1 as long as they have aftermarket engine management.
On an F-Body, you could probably adjust the timing by cutting an access hole in the dashboard to turn the distributor! ;) Just kidding...
I wonder if you could even remove the distributor on a regular SBC in an LT1. I used to have a 3.4L 4th gen, and you had to insert the bolts in the upper intake when you installed it...or else you wouldn't be able to get the bolts in! The y would hit the firewall. So, I would bet that a distributor would be "non-servicable" in an SBC 4th gen.

Pete

HOZZ4: From what I've measured, the answer to whether you could remove a regular dist. from an LT1 when installed in a 4th gen (without a modified cowl) is a resounding no. Just not enough room under there to pick it up and out. You COULD however put in a stubby dist. body (IE for just signal pickup purposes), and remove/install it by pulling the intake manifold along with it. Even then, it's ultra tight. I wouldn't think that it would be a concern though, as there would be nothing to go wrong with the dist shaft other than the drive gear, or the oil pump drive slot, and you would be stopping in short order and pulling the engine (or at least the intake) either way...

Yet another view :)

Dave C.

Originally posted by ericcer
I have the unit installed but it is on my Vette. Thought you guys would like to look anyway.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=710111

Looks awesome!! I know what I am swapping to if my optispark ever dies.

Those coils look like the exact same ones as come on my GTP, I wonder if they are the same, if so the coils are really easy to come by at most junkyards or ebay.

Hehehe we also had a 3.4 ;)

I would like to find a suitable replacement for the opti. Problem might be that it turns at half the speed of the Motor :(

Originally posted by aram
Looks awesome!! I know what I am swapping to if my optispark ever dies.

Those coils look like the exact same ones as come on my GTP, I wonder if they are the same, if so the coils are really easy to come by at most junkyards or ebay.


yes, they are the same (type at least, the ones pictured might be a high output aftermarket style)

they are the standard GM type 2 coil pack, the only diff is the northstar V8 ignition module, that is under the coils and is what the coils mount to

This is really sounding like the best way to go. I have two questions that maybe someone could answer:

What is the gm part number for the ignition module off the northstars?

What plug wires would fit the coil packs? Could i use any style?

Content deleted by Moderator.

Please do not post "for sale" items on this forum.

Anyone tried this setup yet? Also what years Northstar coils work for it?

Bill

I have the Delteq kit sitting in the garage awaiting my cam & heads swap that I hope to start next week. I got the Olds Aurora coil and module from a local salvage yard ready to mount for $100. You can use any plug wires you like as long as both ends are female like the spark plug end. Kit is well assembled with good directions.

What year was the car you got it out of. Still trying to figure out what years are compatible.

Bill

I'm 95% sure I was told 97 Aurora's.

Just give Delteq a call 703-476-3566 they are very helpfull and will surely know what years to look for.

Hi everyone...sorry I have been silent for a little while...I moved last week and I have been completely disorganized. But fear not...I am now getting back to my obsessively orderly life! :)

As for the questions about Northstar coilpacks, here is some useful info:

10458128 - Northstar V8 Ignition Module
19056672 - Coil for Ignition Module (4 req'd)
(these are GM part numbers)

As for the applications using these ignition modules & coils, look to 94-98 Cadillac Northstar and Olds Aurora V8 vehicles. Make sure you don't get one from a V6 Aurora because it, uh, won't work! ;)

You can get the coils from the above mentioned applications as well. The coils are very easy to find since they are also used on 4 and 6-cylinder applications (like the late model Buick 3.8L V6 and the S-10 4-cylinder engines).

I think the last time I bought an ignition module and 4 coils new from the auto parts store, it ran about $350. The car-part website has a ton of used ones for fairly cheap.

A word to the wise: some salvage yards will call the ignition module and coils the "coilpack." This is fine, but just make sure that if you order one sight unseen that you specify that you need the 4 coils and the ignition module! There is a nice stamped aluminum bracket that came on the OEM setup as well, which can be used as the basis for a custom mounting location that is not necessarily covered by our three mounting options. If you want it, make sure you tell the salvage yards. Our "bare bones" kits come with the Delteq bracket of your choice (Radiator shroud mount of valve cover mount).

Let me know if there are any more questions!

pvisser@cox.net

Pete

Damn it, I passed a brand new coil and module setup on ebay because I didn't know the right year. $115 too. Oh well I'll keep my eye's peeled for some more

I've posted this in other threads, but here it is again: Delteq (http://www.geek-racing.com/curt/ignition/delteq)

The coils I used on my setup are MSD coils, not the standard black GM coils. I don't think they're any better than the GM ones; I just happened to have them (they were to go on my old Electromotive SDI setup which used the same coils).

I have had it installed for awhile now, and am very pleased with the results. Let me know if you have any specific questions about the system. I may not respond right away - I don't come to this board much anymore (I have turned on e-mail notification to this thread).