Actually CIA headers have smaller primaries ("tubes") than pacesetter and rksport.

 

Smaller diameter I know, but your saying the tube length is actually shorter too? They looked bigger than the rksport from the pictures of each I saw, but it was just pics. Good to know. Thx.

 

I also called pacesetter and they said they are mid-tubes. Dang I can get that for $370 but matallic ceramic coated. And the good thing about those pacesetter at lmperformance those are jet-hot coated which is what I want

 

I also found them listed as mid length's.

 

Yeah I know, I called lmperformance and told them that pacesetter said they only made-mid tubes for V6 models. I know most people call them shorty headers but they basically mid-tube. That is what it says in the catalog from pacesetter.