camaros_4_lfe

automatic will be faster if u buy a very expensive one stock for stock manual is faster

Slappy3243

It doesn't even matter in this situation which transmission is faster. Let the damn 3.4 have a manual and it will still get smoked very easily. STOCK FOR STOCK

-Adam

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2000 Firebird
Y-87 Package
Borla Cat-Back Exhaust
SLP RAM-AIR Hood
KVR Rotors
KVR Carbon Metalic Pads
Pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/slappy3243/

GrdLockV6

Wow, thanks for the lesson in how a car's drivetrain works, and the 15/20 rule! Fortunately, I was already aware of both of these, as well as how a torque convertor works.

You were too caught up in you having to be right, that you missed my whole point. The 15/20 rule on a V6 Camaro makes NO noticeable difference.

So...

3.8L:
Automatic: 160hp
Manual: 170hp

3.4L:
Automatic: 128hp
Manual: 136hp

Now, the 15/20 rule isn't always completely accurate. Drivetrain loss of a manual can be as low as 15, or as high as 18%. That of an automatic can be as low as 16%, or as high as 20%.

Now, on an f-body, 10hp is equal to approximately .08 seconds on the 1/4th mile, give or take a hundredth or so. Now, this small amount in ET is nothing, as it can be eliminated in RT, conditions of the car, engine temp, any of 100 tiny factors can make this 10hp nothing.

Now, given that 15/20 could be as much as 18/16, which means that it's POSSIBLY that the automatic could lose LESS then the manual. Unlikely, but possible.

So the fact remains, that the drivetrain loss for a V6 comes out to so close to NO difference, that it isn't even a factor. The speed of shifting, however, is. A typical manual driver will shift a good amount slower then an automatic transmission, as the gears have farther to travel in a manual, and the automatic's gears consist of rings that are already basically together, and just have to be moved into a different position to change gears.

Plus, driver error can play a much larger factor in a manual, as since the manual is firmer, tire spin off the line is more likely, as well as missed shifts, etc.

All these factors combined will make an automatic faster. Once again, if you don't believe me, CHECK THE DAMN TIMESLIPS!!!! Freakin ignorant people like you get on my nerves, as you're so stuck on being right, you can't admit it when you're wrong. If a manual was faster, why would the majority of cars that are truly fast and powerful at the dragstrip have automatic's in them? If a manual was faster, don't you think these thousands of people, who were knowledgable enough to build these cars, would use one? Or do you know some huge secret that EVERYONE else doesn't? Please, share! Enlighten the thousands of automatic owners with sub-10 second cars!

With all this crap from you floating around, we'd all better pick up our cans of BS Repel!!

EDIT: Lastly... if manual's are faster, why will a stock 3.8L with an automatic beat a stock 3.8L with a manual each and every time? Same with an LS1, etc. Stock for stock, the automatic wins every time. It's a known fact dude. Go look THAT up

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Kyle M
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SICK-SIXX MEMBER
2000 Metallic Pewter Camaro V6 A4
Performance: Flowmaster 80 w/ WS6 tips, FlowTech cutout, custom ram-air, custom whisper lid, K&N
Appearance: blue neon underbodies, blue reflective concepts
Times:
60': 2.091
1/8: 9.511
1/4: 14.946 @ 90.1MPH

[This message has been edited by GrdLockV6 (edited May 24, 2002).]

bluecmaro96

reaction time has nothing to do with the et. It only has something 2 do with it if you are bracket racing. so no amount of time can be made up by someones r/t for their et.

MustangEater82

how high can you get the RPMs on a launch in a stock auto? 2.5K?

I can rev mine up 5500, and launch at 4000-4500 RPMs. In my 5-speed.

When I powershift, my rpmes spike for the .00005 seocnds it takes for me to shift. I am no expert on 4L60E, but I shift alot faster in my T5 then any of my Th700r4s ever did.

reson why the fastest times are autos is cuz most of the guys are juicing, something a missed shift can cause some serious engine problems.

i have drag raced both auto and manual, manual is better, the only problem is perfecting the launch. Thats the only advantage a auto has over a manual, easier to launch, and you jsut keep it floored down the track. Auto has the best shift points in STOCK form, but once oyu start modding and the pwoer band changes it things change, I eliminated this on my cars by shifting form 1-2-3, then cruise over the finish line.

also not sure but aren't the first couple gears better geared then in Autos?

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1994 Medium Quaser Blue Camaro
3.4L V6 w/ 5-speed
Homeade CAI with a huge K&N cylinder filter, Single outlet Flowmaster with resonator, Accel 8mm ignition wires, Splitfire plugs, 3.42 gears and posi off a 97 WS6, 1 piece steel driveshaft, Converted to 4-wheel disc brakes, 1LE transmision mount, 1LE sway bars, Prothane bushings and endlinks, BMR Strut tower brace, ASP underdrive pulleys
Lightest Weight: 3160
My fat ***: 260
15.696@86.22 with a 2.214 60'!
Best R/T .507
Best 60' 2.106

Father's Stock 2000 Navy Blue Camaro
3.8L V6 w/ 5-speed
15.875@88.25 With wheel spin in 1st

AIM: MustangEater82

thelemur

>>Where do you get more drivetrain loss from an automatic? They don't have more drivetrain loss ... If it's a FACT that there's sooo much drivetrain loss in an automatic that it's gonna be slower, show me this equation? Prove it. An automatic has the same, if not less drivetrain loss then a manual.<<

>>Wow, thanks for the lesson in how a car's drivetrain works, and the 15/20 rule! Fortunately, I was already aware of both of these, as well as how a torque convertor works.
You were too caught up in you having to be right, that you missed my whole point. The 15/20 rule on a V6 Camaro makes NO noticeable difference.
<<

I answered your questions, and you continue to debate This is not worth my time to argue. Bye.

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'97 Z28 M6

Edelbrock Headers, K&N FIPK, Hooker Cat Back, 3" Flowtech Cutout, Pro-5.0 Shifter, SLP Air Foil, 160* Thermostat, LT4KM, !CAGS, !MAF, !TB, !FANS, 245/50/16 Nitto 555R

Best ET 13.510@102.73
1.974 60Ft

[This message has been edited by thelemur (edited May 24, 2002).]

CODY BEHNKE

Unless your running better than stock gears the auto first is way lower.

bluecmaro96

No affense and i hate to burst your bubble but magnus ran 13.8 with bad tuning n/a i doubt a 3.4 will do that n/a manual or not. I dont care how you shift, like stated above no matter the shifting technique you wont make up a 40 hp difference

GrdLockV6

Stalling your car to an RPM as high as 5500 is a great way to earn yourself a very worn clutch... not to mention you're gonna need some super-heated up drag radials to not spin like crazy.

The majority of auto's aren't faster because they're juicing, etc. My car, 100% bone stock ran a 15.2. Find me one, just ONE other Camaro with a manual that ran that same time stock. Can't do it, can ya?

Lemur... I continue to debate because you are wrong. Once again... show me timeslips. Checkout timeslips pages on V6 f-bodies. All the fastest ones, including NA and power adders, are automatic's. Coincidence? I think not. That's proof enough right there. You can argue all day long with formula's and your technical crap, but IMO actual real-world timeslips make for a much better arguement then what you had. Once again... find me a manual 3.8L that ran a 15.2 bone stock.

------------------
Kyle M
--------------
SICK-SIXX MEMBER
2000 Metallic Pewter Camaro V6 A4
Performance: Flowmaster 80 w/ WS6 tips, FlowTech cutout, custom ram-air, custom whisper lid, K&N
Appearance: blue neon underbodies, blue reflective concepts
Times:
60': 2.091
1/8: 9.511
1/4: 14.946 @ 90.1MPH

CODY BEHNKE

Ummmm, Theres a 1996 Camaro 3.8 5-Speed that runs 15.1 bone stock, and a 1997 Firebird with an exhaust that runs 15.06 also a 5-Speed.

I made 3 of the 15.1 runs in the Camaro.

Around here your 3.8 better run 15.5 or better.

I have yet to see one go slower, unless it's out of tune or beat.

[This message has been edited by CODY BEHNKE (edited May 24, 2002).]

camaros_4_lfe

if u ask any REAL gear head they will mostly all say standerds are for fun and the street autos r for the track
even ask the ppl with the first and second gen f bodys at camaros.net

muckz

What's your point? Who cares about worn clutch or not? It's completely not the argument here. And yes, when you drag race, you do burnouts to preheat your slicks/tires.

Find me another auto that runs 15.2 in stock form. Find one. Just ONE other Camaro with auto that runs 15.2 in completely stock form. This means absolutely nothing. There is variance in factory productions that make some cars factory freaks, and that's what you have.

Listen, this is what you yourself said earlier: "only case that a manual tranny is faster then an automatic, is if you're one of the few people in the world". I think that you yourself sealed up the matter: manual is faster than auto. Stop contradicting yourself.

What you later resort to is driver error and driver skill. Cheap excuse?

You really don't know the reason why most drag cars are automatic. It's for consistency and convenience. It is very, and I repeat, very hard to shift manual consistently. Autos are easier. Also, when you make 9 second runs, you better have both hands on the steering wheel and let auto do the shifting. Because when you have to shift, and you have to spray, and you only have 1 to 2 seconds between shifts, there isn't much time left for juicing and shifting. As someone said, one of the reasons is missed gear, something they want to avoid. The ideal way in racing is to eliminate as many potential problems as you can. And going to automatic is a very good choice in drag racing.

If your claim is true that autos provide the same amount of power to the rear wheels and are significantly better than manual, take your argument to Le Mans, formula one, Indycar, Nascar and all other racing. I guess they need you to come and tell them they're in the dark, and you need to enlighten them on the superiority of automatics.

All stock cars automatics transfer LESS power to the rear wheels than manuals, with some exceptions. Some poorly designed manual transmissions also have significant power loss, but these are mostly start up companies (like Kia, Hyundai). But getting back to our fbodies, engine power output variances make up for the difference sometimes, and that is why you may see one auto dyno similar numbers as manual. This has nothing to do with transmission.

And again, just because AUTO is the preferred tranny in drag racing, doesn't mean it's faster or provides better timeslips. It provides better CONSISTENT timeslips. You may have auto run 15.4 all day long. You may have manual run 15.5 to 15.7 all day long, but once or twice he makes a run with 15.3.

Drag racers use automatic transmissions for consistency and convenience reasons, not because they're faster.

MustangEater82

Uhm... Actually I run Cooper Cobras, 235s on salad shooters. I do have LSD but other then that stock rear suspension. I almost never spin. where out your clutch? Thats the first thing you think about when you are drag racing?

let me guess you have 3.42s, higher then any rear gear ratio a car with 3.23s ever came with?

I'll admit I could only get my dad's 2k down to a 15.4-15.5. stock if I had driven it for more then one week. But who is to say your car isn't one of the freakish ones.

As for the really fast guys, they are not going to be able to do it on a T5. only rated soemthing like 250 lbs of torque. Ever notice the 3.8L is probable the biggest motor it was ever put on, other then a tpi 305. It was never on a 350. Because it could not hhandle the torque.



------------------
1994 Medium Quaser Blue Camaro
3.4L V6 w/ 5-speed
Homeade CAI with a huge K&N cylinder filter, Single outlet Flowmaster with resonator, Accel 8mm ignition wires, Splitfire plugs, 3.42 gears and posi off a 97 WS6, 1 piece steel driveshaft, Converted to 4-wheel disc brakes, 1LE transmision mount, 1LE sway bars, Prothane bushings and endlinks, BMR Strut tower brace, ASP underdrive pulleys
Lightest Weight: 3160
My fat ***: 260
15.696@86.22 with a 2.214 60'!
Best R/T .507
Best 60' 2.106

Father's Stock 2000 Navy Blue Camaro
3.8L V6 w/ 5-speed
15.875@88.25 With wheel spin in 1st

AIM: MustangEater82

GrdLockV6

Ya know, I'm not gonna drag this thread out anymore. It's a totally pointless arguement. We each have our own points and arguements, but no matter what, no one will admit they're wrong. Automatic owners will usually think auto's are better, and manual owners will usually think sticks are better. Each has their ups and downs, each has their variances, and in reality, I don't think one is better then the other. Sometimes one will be faster, sometimes the other will be faster.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread.

muckz

I don't really know what you were trying to accomplish in all your posts. You were arguing one point, you cause quite the commotion, and then say at the end how pointless it is to argue and how everything is subject to one's opinions.

Opinions are opinions, but facts are facts. And you were the one who was aruging opinions. When people started bringing up facts, you backed off. As I said before, auto is better for drag racing. Manual is better for transferring power to the wheels. And this is not opinion. This is fact.

You trying to come off at the end as innocent sheep while stirring all these contentions is purely pointless. Then you tell everyone that they have difficulty admitting they're wrong.