RawAzzLT1

[QUOTE=Oracle17]

Steve Y

You are a retarded troll! I meant bone ****ing stock with the addition of the turbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As in stock rods, crank, pistons, head, cam, intake, exhaust, transmission, half shafts, seats, a/c, etc. etc. etc. Can you read?

Steve Y

How do you know what psi he was running on that race? Were you in the car with him? And what would the Mustang Cobra with a built engine and an 8 psi intercooled turbo run? A lot faster than the POS weed whacker. Yeah, Civics are the Mustangs of the modern era except they are torqueless wonders with no power unless you do a power adder, a complete ground up engine and strip the hell out of them. They also look like ***, sound like *** and every idiot and their mother drives one. I want to see some links to manual tranny 6 second Civics, Raw. Do you know what an LS1 does with 5 and 8 psi turbo kits? John Lingenfelter had a Vette with 500 rw horses on 5 psi and 650 rw horses on 8 psi with very little internal work done. Little engines suck, Civics suck, and fwd sucks for drag racing (this is all compared to big engines, Stangs and Camaros, and rwd, of course).

87camracer

look at all the personal opinions. not one fact in there with the exception of the JL cars. where to start? ok here we go...

the mustang was running 8 psi according to brain and it sounds like that person knows both people in this story. considering he gave a breakdown of engine mods for the civic.

what does a built mustang engine have to do with this thread? i mean really. a stock GSR can make 350 at the ground with nothing but a bolt on turbo kit, proper fuel and exhaust and tuning. i proved that 6 pages ago. yet here we are talking about how weak the honda engine is.

torque doesnt matter. i dont want ANY torque in a FWD car. why? because there goes traction. but you know what? to make horsepower you have to have torque.

sounds and looks are subjective. but add a REAL catback and not an ebay fart tip special and they sound pretty decent. besides with a turbo you arent gonna hear the exhaust note anyway. and its funny, you talk about every idiot and their mother owning one? i see about 4 mustangs for every civic. which makes the saying "mustangs are like tampons, every pu**y has one" true.

and lastly, i personally view most ls1 turbo cars as dyno queens. they dont et or trap what i think they should given the amount of power they have.

i guess none of this has sunk into that thick *** head of yours yet. maybe one day hooked on phonics will finish learnin' you how to read.

FastZinTennessee

I disagree with this reasoning. An automatic transmission is well suited for for drag racing an Fbody because of race weight, engine powerband, and availability of parts such as line locks. For all out drag racing a manual in a dragrace Fbody is at a DISADVANTAGE. Since no one uses auto trannies(or so you say) in drag racing Hondas, using a manual is an ADVANTAGE in one. Keep in mind that I talked about race weight when saying that an auto is suited for an Fbody. Raceweight is directly related to characteristics of the vehicle platform. This is what we are arguing about, what's the better platform. I agree that a mid 9 second street car is more than anyone would ever need, but you made the comment that a 9.5X second street Civic is faster than EVERY street car on this site. On that statement you are wrong.

I don't understand what the issue is here. If you want all out drag racing in Fbodies, you need to go with an automatic trans. If you want to go roadracing, or maybe just to save some gas, it would be to your advantage to get a manual transmission. The manual trans has more "absolute" potential in roadracing or <gasp> autocross than does an automatic.

Once again, the issue is a 9.5X street Civic, which RawAzz claims to be the fastest street civic in America being faster than every street LT1 on this site. You cannot pick your advantage(manual trans in a Honda) and a competitors disadvantage(manual trans in an Fbody) and expect to prove anything, especially when dealing with two diferrent platforms suited for two diferrent transmissions.

87camracer

i disagree with you. on all points in fact. you ask most why they go manual to auto and they will say to get better ETs. NOT because a manual is at a disadvantage. if its some how hindering you at the track, they you need to learn to drive it before you add the power. then you start talking about clutches and things to handle a 9 second car and yes an auto is better in that regard. a clutch to hold 6 or 700 rwhp is not going to be easy to drive on the street in most cases.

i see your point that a manual tranny is at somewhat of an ET disadvantage but that has nothing to do with the engines output. you cant put a powerglide and 4.56 gears behind a stock TPI thats limited to 4500rpms and expect it to be fast. you have to cater the setup to the car. meaning, if you are going to run a stick then you will probably end up revving it to a decently high rpm. so you get an engine top end that caters to higher rpms and put in steeper gears. it isnt at the "disadvantage" that you are implying it is.

further more he said that civic (which isnt the fastest in america BTW) is faster than any 6 speed lt1 on this site. not any lt1, but any lt1 that has a manual just like the civic does.

FastZinTennessee

I'm gonna stop you right there. If people say, and it is true, that they go with an auto for better ET's, then a manual is most certainly at a disadvantage for drag racing in Fbodies.

Yes it is, and it has to do with the chassis setup. Automatic transmissions help you get off the line by multiplying torque output from the motor. This torque is multiplied by the torque converter. With rear wheel drive, if you set up your suspension to efficiently transfer weight to the rear wheels you can take advantage of an automatic setup and its torque multiplication to get you off the line quicker. However, if you multiply the torque in the same manner with an auto in a front wheel drive car, you'll just blow the tires off. Now I know there are fwd cars cutting good short times, but you can see what I'm saying.

Go back and read again. He said that the fastest street Civic is faster than the fastest street car on this site.

He also said that a particular Civic with a manual trans was faster than a certain six speed Camaro that we have on this site. That is true(according to the links he posted), but my point is, so what? I've just hashed out many times why manuals trannies in Fbodies are not the optimum setup for drag racing. Why compare what's optimal for hondas, and not optimal for Fbodies? Actually, don't answer that...... I know what you're trying to prove, I'm just not buying it!

brain

Just a note - I thought it would be misunderstood, the CIVIC was running 8 psi on pump gas. Not sure on the mustang. I would presume it to be a Vortech s-trim on a stock motor, making circa 400 rwhp, coulda been more or less. My friend had a 96 cobra stock motor with a 15lb vortech made 499 rwhp, at least till it cracked the block.

Pentatonic

Hmm..a 13 page Sport Compact vs. V8 RWD thread in which I have yet to post.

I see a great deal of posts from sport compact advocates (the usual suspects; RawAzzLT1 and 87camracer). Many of these posts are quoting the times of purpose built drag race cars. It seems that a Honda manual transmission car is running faster than Taner's LT1 manual car. It also seems as though this information was posted to imply that the Honda drag car was superior to Taners.

Take a look the LS1 at the top of the page:
http://www.blackls1ta.com/boosted_list_2003.htm
It runs 8.52@163 mph. Does this mean that this car is superior to the 100% of Hondas running slower than 8.52?

Steve Y

I already beat 98% of the Hondas out there with these simple mods.

Steve Y

Exactly! Which proves my point. Rwd is better than fwd for drag racing, Mustangs are better than Civics for drag racing and big engines are better than small ones for drag racing. All of this I just wrote is pure Fact, anybody that dares to argue with it is a moron. But somebody will argue with it, I bet. Also this 9.5 second Civic is way less fun to drive than the 9.5 second Camaro because the Civic has no power until the turbo spools and you rev the **** out of it. Big engines provide torque down low which is great for street driving, remember these are street cars!

87camracer

ok ill bite. it means that the ls1 featured there is faster and makes more hp than the honda. end of story. no bullsh*t excuses no nothing. its faster.

its ironic that you post that actually. because had that been a honda running that time, there would be 6 more pages of biased bull**** about how a civic is bad for this or that. why cant someone straight up say "nice car", or "nice time" or whatever? why does there always have to be this stupid sh*t amongst domestic owners? and before you say import enthusiasts do it too, have a gander at 98% of the threads talking about domestics on honda tech. its assinine really.

steve, why not provide facts to supprt your BS? o thats right, 99% of it is OPINION. you post some stupid unrelated BS and throw a fact or two in. facts have been provided to you yet you continue to spout off like a certain other member i know of...

david97gsxr

i havn't read this whole thread. and i'm not about to, but i skimmed over it. and i'd just like to say, fwd is soooo much better for drag racing, that's why top fuel, and funny cars use fwd....oh wait. i smoked a lot of crack earlier. nevermind.

Steve Y

Here are some FACTs for you (I have already posted them countless times!): Rwd is better than fwd for drag racing (weight transfer and traction), big engines are better than small ones for drag racing (more torque and hp potential), therefore Stangs are better than Civics for drag racing (rwd, bigger engines, a ton of aftermarket support, faster Stangs than Civics in all out race cars, etc). Now argue with me and make yourself look even dumber!

Pentatonic

Indeed it is faster. However, you did not say that it was superior. That is because the enthusiasm about cars most people have on this site goes beyond merely which car has the greatest all-out drag racing potential (even though it looks to be the LS1's and the Mustangs in this case).

So a Civic out there run's 9's. So? An LS1 out there runs 8's and there are a couple of Mustangs running 7's. What's the point? In simple statistics, these are the cars that are on the outer fringes of the bell curve. They are certainly not the norm, and have little relavance to 99% of F-bodies and 99% of Civics. So now we are back to square 1. Unless we are on a "drag-race only" forum, most people enjoy cars for their styling, heritage, off-the showroom-floor performance, low-end torque, even size and interior room.

And for those reasons above and many others, depending on who you talk to, that is why we all like F-bodies here. For many of us, Civics do not fit the bill of a car that we would be enthused about.