me vs a gs400 (too close for comfort)
03-02-2004, 02:29 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 97
Originally posted by Threxx
If I remember correctly the frontal area is 23 sq ft and the cD is .28
93-95 f-bodies, if I remember correctly are 22 sq ft and .34 cD
If I remember correctly the frontal area is 23 sq ft and the cD is .28
93-95 f-bodies, if I remember correctly are 22 sq ft and .34 cD
03-02-2004, 02:29 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,338
Originally posted by MauriSSio
whered you get these numbers???
whered you get these numbers???
03-02-2004, 02:31 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,338
Originally posted by Steve Y
How much rwhp does a stock '99 GS400 put out?
How much rwhp does a stock '99 GS400 put out?
Flywheel HP is about 300... some say a bit over.
The GS4's driveline, due to its 'cushy/overbuilt' design is a couple percentage points behind the industry norm for auto trannies in terms of parasitic drivetrain loss.
03-02-2004, 02:35 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 97
Originally posted by Threxx
If memory serves me... about 250...
If memory serves me... about 250...
I should crush him good.
03-02-2004, 10:57 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Irmo, S.C
Posts: 26
Steve, before you raise the bs flag, consider this. The GS400 has a drag co-efficient of .27-.29 (spoiler or not). That's better than 99% of the sports cars ever built including the c5. My Z is .33 and my vette is .32 for comparison. Considering the GS400 has 300 hp compared to the z's 275....and the fact that at 100 mph weight is not much of a factor, why's it impossible that the higher hp car with better aerodynamics is faster at high speed?
Jason
Jason
Originally posted by Steve Y
Last edited by yellavette; 03-02-2004 at 11:07 PM.
03-03-2004, 10:49 AM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 97
Originally posted by yellavette
Steve, before you raise the bs flag, consider this. The GS400 has a drag co-efficient of .27-.29 (spoiler or not). That's better than 99% of the sports cars ever built including the c5. My Z is .33 and my vette is .32 for comparison. Considering the GS400 has 300 hp compared to the z's 275....and the fact that at 100 mph weight is not much of a factor, why's it impossible that the higher hp car with better aerodynamics is faster at high speed?
Jason
Steve, before you raise the bs flag, consider this. The GS400 has a drag co-efficient of .27-.29 (spoiler or not). That's better than 99% of the sports cars ever built including the c5. My Z is .33 and my vette is .32 for comparison. Considering the GS400 has 300 hp compared to the z's 275....and the fact that at 100 mph weight is not much of a factor, why's it impossible that the higher hp car with better aerodynamics is faster at high speed?
Jason
03-03-2004, 11:54 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Irmo, S.C
Posts: 26
I don't know either way....I was just throwing that out there for arguments sake
On paper they look comparable....who knows on the street....but I think "left in the dust" is a little extreme. I've gone back and forth from Vettes to *** turbo 6's....and the difference in feel between them is amazing. Because the 350 is so loud and rumbly....with such a linear power band, you never get that "holy sh*t" type of accleration feel....whereas a smooth, quite, *** car (with comparable hp) feels faster even though it may not be. I had a supercharged 94 vette a couple years back that really didn't "feel" all that fast....not nearly as fast as my bpu Supra felt....but the first time at the strip she ran 12.20@122 which is the fastest (mph) pass I've ever made. Totally suprised me.
Jason
On paper they look comparable....who knows on the street....but I think "left in the dust" is a little extreme. I've gone back and forth from Vettes to *** turbo 6's....and the difference in feel between them is amazing. Because the 350 is so loud and rumbly....with such a linear power band, you never get that "holy sh*t" type of accleration feel....whereas a smooth, quite, *** car (with comparable hp) feels faster even though it may not be. I had a supercharged 94 vette a couple years back that really didn't "feel" all that fast....not nearly as fast as my bpu Supra felt....but the first time at the strip she ran 12.20@122 which is the fastest (mph) pass I've ever made. Totally suprised me.Jason
Originally posted by Steve Y
I think a C5 is .29. Stock the Z has the same or more rwhp than the GS400. The Z weighs about 400 lbs. less. The GS400 has a better c/d but more fronal area. He also said a Z with a muffler and a hypertech which should add at least 10-15 rwhp to the Z. So I think this race would be close or the Z would win from 100 mph. He said the Z would be left in the dust from 100 mph, remember. All of this is bench racing anyway, we need somebody that will step up to his challenge and see!
I think a C5 is .29. Stock the Z has the same or more rwhp than the GS400. The Z weighs about 400 lbs. less. The GS400 has a better c/d but more fronal area. He also said a Z with a muffler and a hypertech which should add at least 10-15 rwhp to the Z. So I think this race would be close or the Z would win from 100 mph. He said the Z would be left in the dust from 100 mph, remember. All of this is bench racing anyway, we need somebody that will step up to his challenge and see!
Last edited by yellavette; 03-03-2004 at 11:56 AM.
03-15-2004, 04:03 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bryan Tex, USA
Posts: 83
?
Originally posted by Steve Y
The Z weighs about 400 lbs. less.
The Z weighs about 400 lbs. less.
Frontal area is about a wash. The wider tires on the Fbody offset the lower height. Both around 22-23sq/feet.
I think a LT1 6speed is going into overdrive at about 125 .. my GS4 is still in direct 1-1 from 100 to 135. Not to mention its pretty much in a sweetspot in the 115-125 range. .. just ask the LS1 drivers that dont gain any distance on me there..
GM published a CD .36 for the 4th gen fbody when it first came out.
Last edited by gs400tx; 03-15-2004 at 04:06 PM.
03-16-2004, 11:30 AM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 97
Re: ?
Originally posted by gs400tx
Lets see, a LT1 Fbody weighs 3300?, Bc my GS4 was 3700 with half a tank. I thought 3500 lbs was about right for an Lt1 fbody.
Frontal area is about a wash. The wider tires on the Fbody offset the lower height. Both around 22-23sq/feet.
I think a LT1 6speed is going into overdrive at about 125 .. my GS4 is still in direct 1-1 from 100 to 135. Not to mention its pretty much in a sweetspot in the 115-125 range. .. just ask the LS1 drivers that dont gain any distance on me there..
GM published a CD .36 for the 4th gen fbody when it first came out.
Lets see, a LT1 Fbody weighs 3300?, Bc my GS4 was 3700 with half a tank. I thought 3500 lbs was about right for an Lt1 fbody.
Frontal area is about a wash. The wider tires on the Fbody offset the lower height. Both around 22-23sq/feet.
I think a LT1 6speed is going into overdrive at about 125 .. my GS4 is still in direct 1-1 from 100 to 135. Not to mention its pretty much in a sweetspot in the 115-125 range. .. just ask the LS1 drivers that dont gain any distance on me there..
GM published a CD .36 for the 4th gen fbody when it first came out.
03-16-2004, 05:35 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bryan Tex, USA
Posts: 83
most GS4s dynojet around 240-245
based on my experience.
Mine was 240 on the MTI-DJ.
Probably ~5percent less hp at the tires than a LT1.
Its usually below 80 the Lt1 cars have an advantage. The extra weight of the GS and less torque gives the advantage to the fbody until aerodynamics come into play. At that point, weight is a minimal factor and the aero/gearing of the 5speed auto in the GS begins to show up..
Its usually within a car one way or the other (on a lt1 with exhaust) up till 100, then the GS has a minor advantage.
A good example is the time I played with a convert LT1-Vette.
The top was up on the vette, it was an auto trans. From 15mph to 115, the distance stayed about exactly the same. The vette was about .5 cars back. About the same as the 300ZX-TT I played with (several times) up to the 120 range. Id would say for LT1-fbodies, it really comes down to who punches it first to up about 100 or so.. its that close.
Mine was 240 on the MTI-DJ.
Probably ~5percent less hp at the tires than a LT1.
Its usually below 80 the Lt1 cars have an advantage. The extra weight of the GS and less torque gives the advantage to the fbody until aerodynamics come into play. At that point, weight is a minimal factor and the aero/gearing of the 5speed auto in the GS begins to show up..
Its usually within a car one way or the other (on a lt1 with exhaust) up till 100, then the GS has a minor advantage.
A good example is the time I played with a convert LT1-Vette.
The top was up on the vette, it was an auto trans. From 15mph to 115, the distance stayed about exactly the same. The vette was about .5 cars back. About the same as the 300ZX-TT I played with (several times) up to the 120 range. Id would say for LT1-fbodies, it really comes down to who punches it first to up about 100 or so.. its that close.
03-16-2004, 05:39 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Posts: 2,521
Re: ?
Originally posted by gs400tx
Not to mention its pretty much in a sweetspot in the 115-125 range. .. just ask the LS1 drivers that dont gain any distance on me there..
Not to mention its pretty much in a sweetspot in the 115-125 range. .. just ask the LS1 drivers that dont gain any distance on me there..
03-16-2004, 05:46 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bryan Tex, USA
Posts: 83
if they do they must drive like that all the time
I can probably find about 3 or 4 local peeps in the WS6s and SSs that will confirm my comments. They probably are on this board...
Dont forget, a LS1 TA with the headlights up is just about the same CD as a LT1 car. A little better on the Z.
Isnt your average LT1 fbody about 2 cars back on an LS1 in the 70-120 range.. I would expect no more distance for an LS1-gs4 matchup
According to car and driver, an auto LS1 SS takes 6.4 seconds (13.4 to 100, 19.8 to 120) to go from 100 to 120. I think the GS4 is right about 6.6 to 6.8. I cant find it now... I think the 100 time was 15.4 and the 120 time was 22.x
Pretty small differences there...
Dont forget, a LS1 TA with the headlights up is just about the same CD as a LT1 car. A little better on the Z.
Isnt your average LT1 fbody about 2 cars back on an LS1 in the 70-120 range.. I would expect no more distance for an LS1-gs4 matchup
According to car and driver, an auto LS1 SS takes 6.4 seconds (13.4 to 100, 19.8 to 120) to go from 100 to 120. I think the GS4 is right about 6.6 to 6.8. I cant find it now... I think the 100 time was 15.4 and the 120 time was 22.x
Pretty small differences there...
Last edited by gs400tx; 03-16-2004 at 05:52 PM.
03-16-2004, 06:23 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 97
Re: most GS4s dynojet around 240-245
Originally posted by gs400tx
based on my experience.
Mine was 240 on the MTI-DJ.
Probably ~5percent less hp at the tires than a LT1.
Its usually below 80 the Lt1 cars have an advantage. The extra weight of the GS and less torque gives the advantage to the fbody until aerodynamics come into play. At that point, weight is a minimal factor and the aero/gearing of the 5speed auto in the GS begins to show up..
Its usually within a car one way or the other (on a lt1 with exhaust) up till 100, then the GS has a minor advantage.
A good example is the time I played with a convert LT1-Vette.
The top was up on the vette, it was an auto trans. From 15mph to 115, the distance stayed about exactly the same. The vette was about .5 cars back. About the same as the 300ZX-TT I played with (several times) up to the 120 range. Id would say for LT1-fbodies, it really comes down to who punches it first to up about 100 or so.. its that close.
based on my experience.
Mine was 240 on the MTI-DJ.
Probably ~5percent less hp at the tires than a LT1.
Its usually below 80 the Lt1 cars have an advantage. The extra weight of the GS and less torque gives the advantage to the fbody until aerodynamics come into play. At that point, weight is a minimal factor and the aero/gearing of the 5speed auto in the GS begins to show up..
Its usually within a car one way or the other (on a lt1 with exhaust) up till 100, then the GS has a minor advantage.
A good example is the time I played with a convert LT1-Vette.
The top was up on the vette, it was an auto trans. From 15mph to 115, the distance stayed about exactly the same. The vette was about .5 cars back. About the same as the 300ZX-TT I played with (several times) up to the 120 range. Id would say for LT1-fbodies, it really comes down to who punches it first to up about 100 or so.. its that close.
03-16-2004, 06:45 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bryan Tex, USA
Posts: 83
his must be a little stouter than mine
My car would put ~ carlength or maybe a little more but thats probably about all..
Im a little older (but not much smarter).. and dont do quite as much "testing" as I used to.
I get most of my heavy right foot time in the camaro lately.
take care/be careful
edit 9:30
I actually have a friend that has a 93-hawk with macs and 1.6s. It made 290 at the tires. He and I have never played, He should put a car on me at least I would think. If it ever happens I will be sure and post.. either way.
Im a little older (but not much smarter).. and dont do quite as much "testing" as I used to.
I get most of my heavy right foot time in the camaro lately.
take care/be careful
edit 9:30
I actually have a friend that has a 93-hawk with macs and 1.6s. It made 290 at the tires. He and I have never played, He should put a car on me at least I would think. If it ever happens I will be sure and post.. either way.
Last edited by gs400tx; 03-16-2004 at 09:37 PM.