Cobra got beat
02-27-2009, 07:27 AM
#76
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an...on the cobra comment vs the LS1... wrong... if we're talking about modding a cobra to get it to 480rwhp then you have to take into account total cost... brand new purchase price of a cobra plus the mods to put 480 to the wheels will cost more than it does to throw a turbo or sc on an LS1 which can easily put an LS1 over 500rwhp
And 3rd gens ended in 92... that was almost 2 full decades ago, since then Chevy has owned Ford
I'm comparing engine capability... the 4.6 in the 03/04 cobras is not even comparable to an LS1.. because lets face it, LS1's put down over 300rwhp stock, and a cobra is right around 340-350...and that's with a S/C... you can argue that "stock for stock" stuff, but you still have to pay for that supercharger, so whether you buy it directly from ford and their dealerships or you buy it from ATI, doesn't matter, you're gonna have to put up the money for it
ford has never built a production engine for their mustangs, cobras or their gt as capable or impressive as the LSX... it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact
And 3rd gens ended in 92... that was almost 2 full decades ago, since then Chevy has owned Ford
I'm comparing engine capability... the 4.6 in the 03/04 cobras is not even comparable to an LS1.. because lets face it, LS1's put down over 300rwhp stock, and a cobra is right around 340-350...and that's with a S/C... you can argue that "stock for stock" stuff, but you still have to pay for that supercharger, so whether you buy it directly from ford and their dealerships or you buy it from ATI, doesn't matter, you're gonna have to put up the money for it
ford has never built a production engine for their mustangs, cobras or their gt as capable or impressive as the LSX... it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact
Not to mention the fact that you would need to buy at the very least a rotating assembly for the LS motor if you are going to run anything more than 6 psi reliably. Yes, you can get to 480 rwhp by "throwing on a SC or a turbo" but its not going to last long on a stock block. Oh, you also need to think about fuel, spark, and tuning. Price is really starting to even out now. Not to mention that I didn't mention adding a ported stock Eaton to the Cobra which would bring that car up to 520 or so hp to the wheels.
What makes the Terminator Cobra the best pony car out there is the engine. It's a fully forged low compression engine from the factory that can handle tremendous amounts of power. Until GM does this then the Cobra is going to reign supreme.
Here is a link to info on the Coyote:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-coyote-v8.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-coyote-v8.html
I still think I would choose the Ecoboost motor over the Coyote.
02-27-2009, 11:52 AM
#77
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Location: Snow Belt, PA
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13.9 is not the norm for stock LT1's. That's the norm for CAI/catback cars but not stock. The 13.5 is pretty close but that might still be a little too fast. So I'll compromise and say that its a half second faster on average which still isn't really that close.
You can't take the original price of the car into account. If that were the case then you could make the same argument for an LS1 vs. a fox body. The fox body is cheaper to get into plus the aftermarket is way more abundant with cheap go fast goodies.
Not to mention the fact that you would need to buy at the very least a rotating assembly for the LS motor if you are going to run anything more than 6 psi reliably. Yes, you can get to 480 rwhp by "throwing on a SC or a turbo" but its not going to last long on a stock block. Oh, you also need to think about fuel, spark, and tuning. Price is really starting to even out now. Not to mention that I didn't mention adding a ported stock Eaton to the Cobra which would bring that car up to 520 or so hp to the wheels.
What makes the Terminator Cobra the best pony car out there is the engine. It's a fully forged low compression engine from the factory that can handle tremendous amounts of power. Until GM does this then the Cobra is going to reign supreme.
Unless they put that motor in a lightweight car then I don't see it being anything other than an equal to the Camaro. Lightweight meaning no content therefore inferior in terms of overall design.
I still think I would choose the Ecoboost motor over the Coyote.
You can't take the original price of the car into account. If that were the case then you could make the same argument for an LS1 vs. a fox body. The fox body is cheaper to get into plus the aftermarket is way more abundant with cheap go fast goodies.
Not to mention the fact that you would need to buy at the very least a rotating assembly for the LS motor if you are going to run anything more than 6 psi reliably. Yes, you can get to 480 rwhp by "throwing on a SC or a turbo" but its not going to last long on a stock block. Oh, you also need to think about fuel, spark, and tuning. Price is really starting to even out now. Not to mention that I didn't mention adding a ported stock Eaton to the Cobra which would bring that car up to 520 or so hp to the wheels.
What makes the Terminator Cobra the best pony car out there is the engine. It's a fully forged low compression engine from the factory that can handle tremendous amounts of power. Until GM does this then the Cobra is going to reign supreme.
Unless they put that motor in a lightweight car then I don't see it being anything other than an equal to the Camaro. Lightweight meaning no content therefore inferior in terms of overall design.
I still think I would choose the Ecoboost motor over the Coyote.
I will admit, the cobra's are one hell of a car... it's not so much the flow capability or NA power making capability, as it is just a 4.6 ford... it's the forged internals that make it such a great engine for boost applications
either way, I'll end this discussion with the fact that going fast is fun, and everyone has their own preferences for power and speed
hopefully this economic crisis won't kill it
long live the pony car!
02-27-2009, 01:49 PM
#78
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Location: Brighton, IL
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Yes, a half second on average is about accurate, but that's not because the car has a far superior motor, it's almost 2 decades of suspension advancement and such
I will admit, the cobra's are one hell of a car... it's not so much the flow capability or NA power making capability, as it is just a 4.6 ford... it's the forged internals that make it such a great engine for boost applications
either way, I'll end this discussion with the fact that going fast is fun, and everyone has their own preferences for power and speed
hopefully this economic crisis won't kill it
long live the pony car!
I will admit, the cobra's are one hell of a car... it's not so much the flow capability or NA power making capability, as it is just a 4.6 ford... it's the forged internals that make it such a great engine for boost applications
either way, I'll end this discussion with the fact that going fast is fun, and everyone has their own preferences for power and speed
hopefully this economic crisis won't kill it
long live the pony car!
03-17-2009, 07:43 AM
#80
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Location: Browns Mills, New Jersey
Posts: 3,224
03-17-2009, 11:20 AM
#81
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unless you're talking about a 96-97 SS, which would be dead even with an 08 mustang gt... and with this comparison I am talking about when both cars were brand new right off the showroom floor, not a 150k mile LT1 vs a factory fresh GT
03-17-2009, 02:41 PM
#82
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Whats all this "stock for stock" BS? The LT1 is over 10 years older than the current Mustang :S. It's actually kinda sad that with 10 years of technological advancements ford is just barely doing better than what Chevrolet had in the Camaro back in 1997. If you want to compare stock to stock then you need to compare the LT1 to the 93-97 Mustangs (which sucked bad).
03-18-2009, 08:42 AM
#83
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Yea ok bud, im not even going to go into this...a 6spd LT1 is dead even w/ a 2008 GT. Whatever you say lol.
03-18-2009, 08:44 AM
#84
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Location: Browns Mills, New Jersey
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Whats all this "stock for stock" BS? The LT1 is over 10 years older than the current Mustang :S. It's actually kinda sad that with 10 years of technological advancements ford is just barely doing better than what Chevrolet had in the Camaro back in 1997. If you want to compare stock to stock then you need to compare the LT1 to the 93-97 Mustangs (which sucked bad).
03-18-2009, 11:45 AM
#85
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Location: Odessa/Lubbock, Texas
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Well its true dumba**, thats why everyone says it. Lets just compare the LS1 to the mid 70's pinto style mustangs if year model doesnt matter lol. How can you be proud of comparing a brand new mustang to a 12 year old Camaro?
Last edited by breakmyfootoff; 03-18-2009 at 01:49 PM.
03-19-2009, 02:33 PM
#86
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an 08 GT is roughly a 13.7 to 13.8 car on average
a 97 SS was roughly the same when they were brand new... so how am I wrong???
not to mention that the 305hp and 335tq the SS was putting out is more than an 08GT in both categories
03-20-2009, 08:28 AM
#87
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Location: Akron, Ohio
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The bench-racing season is over now that Spring is here. I'm sure the GM camp will all run back to their boxes, only posting ridiculous ''street'' races since there's no timing clocks and nobody to video their losses.
03-20-2009, 11:38 AM
#88
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I'll be proudly posting my 10 second timeslip this summer... (that's the goal anyway)
I absolutely cannot wait to post my kills (hopefully accompanied by videos) of all the Fords in my area... the last time everyone saw my car out it had a CAI and the mufflers deleted.... that was 2007... last year after I fixed the body work from hydroplaning i put 3.73's in it but only got to put about 700 miles on it before it overheated...I then ran out of money for the year
everything else in my sig has been done in the past 2 months and with the addition of my 150 shot next month it's going to make for one fun summer
side note, spring is not here just yet, while it's been in the 50's a few days up here, we woke up this morning with snow on the ground
