Beat a built 3rd gen
Banned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,610
From: Holland, NY
Uneducated? 
Ya......okaaaaayyyyy! Nothing more ridiculous than the things coming out of your mouth. You think for one second, your gay little picture intimidates or scares me? You look like a real tough guy....
You got hit on by a *** in HS......I could see that. If I am ever in your neighborhood, I will stop by .
Ya......okaaaaayyyyy! Nothing more ridiculous than the things coming out of your mouth. You think for one second, your gay little picture intimidates or scares me? You look like a real tough guy.... You got hit on by a *** in HS......I could see that. If I am ever in your neighborhood, I will stop by .
). What can I say.. I'm Dead Sexy 
But hey.. I will forgive you of your sins, just as Christ Almighty forgives me of mine.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 308
From: Long Island
Dude, you've lost your mind.
You're not gonna make up 140 horsepower with bolt ons, unless you include nitrous and/or a cam as a bolt on. I know the intake is a huge restriction and all, but still 140 horsepower is alot for just bolt-ons, gonna need at least a cam to come near that.
EDIT: third gens also aren't THAT much lighter then 4th gens, my car full weight(no driver) is 3440 pounds, a third gen weighs what, 3300 pounds? thats only a 140 pound difference, really its a decent amount, but not a HUGE amount like you say.
P.S. About my sig, I removed my back seats, passenger seat, rear seat belts and front sway bar to get to 3506 with me in the car(I weigh 160)
Last edited by JimboManJones; Apr 27, 2007 at 07:46 PM.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,610
From: Holland, NY
Dude, you've lost your mind.
You're not gonna make up 140 horsepower with bolt ons, unless you include nitrous and/or a cam as a bolt on. I know the intake is a huge restriction and all, but still 140 horsepower is alot for just bolt-ons, gonna need at least a cam to come near that.
EDIT: third gens also aren't THAT much lighter then 4th gens, my car full weight(no driver) is 3440 pounds, a third gen weighs what, 3300 pounds? thats only a 140 pound difference, really its a decent amount, but not a HUGE amount like you say.
P.S. About my sig, I removed my back seats, passenger seat, rear seat belts and front sway bar to get to 3506 with me in the car(I weigh 160)
You're not gonna make up 140 horsepower with bolt ons, unless you include nitrous and/or a cam as a bolt on. I know the intake is a huge restriction and all, but still 140 horsepower is alot for just bolt-ons, gonna need at least a cam to come near that.
EDIT: third gens also aren't THAT much lighter then 4th gens, my car full weight(no driver) is 3440 pounds, a third gen weighs what, 3300 pounds? thats only a 140 pound difference, really its a decent amount, but not a HUGE amount like you say.
P.S. About my sig, I removed my back seats, passenger seat, rear seat belts and front sway bar to get to 3506 with me in the car(I weigh 160)
But it's expensive as a ****. And yes, I was including a cam when I said bolton.. should have been more specific
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 233
From: Boise, ID
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 308
From: Long Island
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,022
From: MD
Originally Posted by JimboManJones
You're not gonna make up 140 horsepower with bolt ons, unless you include nitrous and/or a cam as a bolt on. I know the intake is a huge restriction and all, but still 140 horsepower is alot for just bolt-ons, gonna need at least a cam to come near that.
Originally Posted by JimboManJones
EDIT: third gens also aren't THAT much lighter then 4th gens, my car full weight(no driver) is 3440 pounds, a third gen weighs what, 3300 pounds? thats only a 140 pound difference, really its a decent amount, but not a HUGE amount like you say.
And it sounds like that 84 from the original post isn't running very well. Part of it may the heads, Pro Topline is crap, no matter what the people who bought them say... And that converter is a 12" most likely, and is too tight. Look at my sig - I've got a similar combo in my car. Stock LS1s are NOT competition!
Banned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,610
From: Holland, NY
[QUOTE=Marc 85Z28;4571770]Agreed 100% In fact, a lot of heads/cam full bolt-on L98s don't see 400HP at the crank, much less with just bolt-ons
[QUOTE]
Oh sure if the L98 owner doesn't know how to pick a heads and cam package worth a f*ck then no they aren't gonna be making power.
[QUOTE]
Oh sure if the L98 owner doesn't know how to pick a heads and cam package worth a f*ck then no they aren't gonna be making power.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 308
From: Long Island
T/As are heavy compared to z28s anyways, what with the flip-up headlight motors, bigger spoiler, ground effects, more speakers, heavier more comfy seats etc. etc.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 2,161
From: Haslett, Michigan
Third-gen and Fourth-gens overlap in terms of weight. My T/A weighed 3550 when 100% stock, and weighs 3460 now with it's six-point roll bar, subframe connectors, and relatively heavy torque arm system. I've seen stock third-gens with V8's get into the low 3400's. However I've seen fourth-gens that weigh 3600 lbs and seen others get into the low 3400's when stock.
...however, whatever.
Matt likes to talk, and talk, and talk, and is a devout follower of a cult of enthusiasts who call themselves "Deciples of the immaculate 305". He is a consummate bench racer, and even though I like him, and enjoy interacting with him on this forum, I have done enough automotive engineering, studying, racing, and seen the dyno testing to know that he is dead wrong when he thinks that a gen1 SBC offers greater performance potential than an LS1.
Do a similar build on a gen 1 SBC, as the gen III LS1, and you will find the LS1 will always have more power on the table. Put together similar cylinder head combos with similar port runner volumes, and the LS1 head will outflow the 23 degree SBC head by at least 40 cfm. Put insimilar cam profiles, and the LS1 will pull another 50 or 60 horsepower from that same head configuration. ...and it'll do it with a better idle, and with less spark advance.
Matt, I like you an all, but you have to face the truth that bench racing can only get you so far before the reality of cold hard facts grab you by the throat. LS1's have superior valve train, cylinder head, and reciprocating assembly technology. If you take both a third-gen and an LS1 owner, and let them each both pick a new cam, an intake, some cylinder heads, and a exhaust, the LS1 will be the horsepower leader each and every time.
Now look at my SIG. I love my car. I drive my car. I still own my car, and I dyno test my car. I've owned it for seventeen years. I think I know my stuff when it comes to third-gens.
...however, whatever.
Matt likes to talk, and talk, and talk, and is a devout follower of a cult of enthusiasts who call themselves "Deciples of the immaculate 305". He is a consummate bench racer, and even though I like him, and enjoy interacting with him on this forum, I have done enough automotive engineering, studying, racing, and seen the dyno testing to know that he is dead wrong when he thinks that a gen1 SBC offers greater performance potential than an LS1.
Do a similar build on a gen 1 SBC, as the gen III LS1, and you will find the LS1 will always have more power on the table. Put together similar cylinder head combos with similar port runner volumes, and the LS1 head will outflow the 23 degree SBC head by at least 40 cfm. Put insimilar cam profiles, and the LS1 will pull another 50 or 60 horsepower from that same head configuration. ...and it'll do it with a better idle, and with less spark advance.
Matt, I like you an all, but you have to face the truth that bench racing can only get you so far before the reality of cold hard facts grab you by the throat. LS1's have superior valve train, cylinder head, and reciprocating assembly technology. If you take both a third-gen and an LS1 owner, and let them each both pick a new cam, an intake, some cylinder heads, and a exhaust, the LS1 will be the horsepower leader each and every time.
Now look at my SIG. I love my car. I drive my car. I still own my car, and I dyno test my car. I've owned it for seventeen years. I think I know my stuff when it comes to third-gens.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,610
From: Holland, NY
Well I was comparing my z28 to a third gen, what does a third gen weigh? I thought around 3300 pounds, mayeb there lighter? My car no weight reduction with a damn near full tank and no driver is 3440, I've also go t-tops leather, all power, bose, a/c and an iron block with aluminum heads/intake. I'm not saying a 4th gen is lighter, just saying that the other guy was exxagerating saying by saying hundreds, he made it sound like a 4th gen weighs 300-400 pounds more.
T/As are heavy compared to z28s anyways, what with the flip-up headlight motors, bigger spoiler, ground effects, more speakers, heavier more comfy seats etc. etc.
T/As are heavy compared to z28s anyways, what with the flip-up headlight motors, bigger spoiler, ground effects, more speakers, heavier more comfy seats etc. etc.
Third-gen and Fourth-gens overlap in terms of weight. My T/A weighed 3550 when 100% stock, and weighs 3460 now with it's six-point roll bar, subframe connectors, and relatively heavy torque arm system. I've seen stock third-gens with V8's get into the low 3400's. However I've seen fourth-gens that weigh 3600 lbs and seen others get into the low 3400's when stock.
...however, whatever.
Matt likes to talk, and talk, and talk, and is a devout follower of a cult of enthusiasts who call themselves "Deciples of the immaculate 305". He is a consummate bench racer, and even though I like him, and enjoy interacting with him on this forum, I have done enough automotive engineering, studying, racing, and seen the dyno testing to know that he is dead wrong when he thinks that a gen1 SBC offers greater performance potential than an LS1.
Do a similar build on a gen 1 SBC, as the gen III LS1, and you will find the LS1 will always have more power on the table. Put together similar cylinder head combos with similar port runner volumes, and the LS1 head will outflow the 23 degree SBC head by at least 40 cfm. Put insimilar cam profiles, and the LS1 will pull another 50 or 60 horsepower from that same head configuration. ...and it'll do it with a better idle, and with less spark advance.
Matt, I like you an all, but you have to face the truth that bench racing can only get you so far before the reality of cold hard facts grab you by the throat. LS1's have superior valve train, cylinder head, and reciprocating assembly technology. If you take both a third-gen and an LS1 owner, and let them each both pick a new cam, an intake, some cylinder heads, and a exhaust, the LS1 will be the horsepower leader each and every time.
Now look at my SIG. I love my car. I drive my car. I still own my car, and I dyno test my car. I've owned it for seventeen years. I think I know my stuff when it comes to third-gens.
...however, whatever.
Matt likes to talk, and talk, and talk, and is a devout follower of a cult of enthusiasts who call themselves "Deciples of the immaculate 305". He is a consummate bench racer, and even though I like him, and enjoy interacting with him on this forum, I have done enough automotive engineering, studying, racing, and seen the dyno testing to know that he is dead wrong when he thinks that a gen1 SBC offers greater performance potential than an LS1.
Do a similar build on a gen 1 SBC, as the gen III LS1, and you will find the LS1 will always have more power on the table. Put together similar cylinder head combos with similar port runner volumes, and the LS1 head will outflow the 23 degree SBC head by at least 40 cfm. Put insimilar cam profiles, and the LS1 will pull another 50 or 60 horsepower from that same head configuration. ...and it'll do it with a better idle, and with less spark advance.
Matt, I like you an all, but you have to face the truth that bench racing can only get you so far before the reality of cold hard facts grab you by the throat. LS1's have superior valve train, cylinder head, and reciprocating assembly technology. If you take both a third-gen and an LS1 owner, and let them each both pick a new cam, an intake, some cylinder heads, and a exhaust, the LS1 will be the horsepower leader each and every time.
Now look at my SIG. I love my car. I drive my car. I still own my car, and I dyno test my car. I've owned it for seventeen years. I think I know my stuff when it comes to third-gens.
I never ONCE said that LS1's dont have LIGHTYEARS more performance over a Gen1 or Gen2 SBC in terms of factory power/mods.. not EVER. What i DID say, was a full bolt-on L98 would walk an Intake/LS1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 94
From: j-ville NC
correct me if im wrong, but how come you guys keep comparing a "bolt on L98" to the ls1...if you read its a H/C/I CARBED 355 with 10:1 CR that EASILY 425 hp. its also an 84 camaro, which means no GFX, and manual hatch release, and had all the HVAC stuff removed, excess wiring, stereo system, cruise control, and carpet padding, this car weights an easy 3200lbs if not less. Granted he has a weak *** stall and gearing for the cam he has, there were roll runs and not from a dig. Either this thing was running like ***, or he doesnt have all he says he has, because that LS1 wouldnt stand a chance. And FWIW theres only 2 NA TPI cars that i know of making 400RWHP and believe me its not easy. I just wish an LS1 would even mess with my "Turdgen"...i think my license plate says it al.. " LS WHAT"
Last edited by Juiced91Z; May 10, 2007 at 07:04 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 94
From: j-ville NC
Coming from the guy who said this "Would be nice to show an Army punk what the Corps is all about.........." like you're hard or something, hell like the marine corps is even hard. Ive been i 4 years now and i cant think of an easier job. Hell im sitting in Camp Virginia Kuwait right now. Hate to burst you're bubble the marine corps is "soft corps" these days. 110lb kids graduate boot camp with no problem..So you're nothing special.
