Allright, I've gotten more and more into auto-x and now I need to upgrade my stock 3rd gens suspension. The car has already had an engien swap so it makes plenty of power.

The car is originally an '86 sport coupe that already has small things like an aftermarket torque arm and sub-frame sonnectors. I was thinking of adding this stuff for a suspension on a budget:

KONI yellows all aorund
IROC-Z springs
IROC-Z rear sway bar
ST front sway bar
Full polyurethane bushing kit
Hotchkis panhard rod
Plus a posi unit so I can actually get the power to the ground

What do you think of this combo? Any other suggestions or changes I should make?

Thanks, Brandon

 

Anyone?

 

You need:

35mm front anti-roll bar, 16mm or 18mm rear anti-roll bar
Fresh WS6 / IROC power steering gear, and good quality intermediate shaft that isnt worn out.
Eibach pro spring kit
Moog problem solver lower ball joints
New end links, center link, and idler arm, preferrably all moog
New upper strut tower bushing kit
Koni sport shocks are expensive but work. Also check out Bilstein and KYB.
High durometer rubber boxed rear control arms.
Rear panhard rod
3.42 or 3.73 gears hung on a limited slip differential. I recommend buying a whole axle with 28 spline axles in it already.
Autocross tires. <-- This is the most important one.
Hawk pads. You want a compound that is grabby when cold and doesnt require lots of high speed heat to activate the material.

Note that if you installed subframe connectors and switched the motor, it puts you out of the F stock and E-street prepared classes and bumps you into the prepared class which is all-out fast cars with no interior to speak of. Dont expect to win a trophy. Just expect to have tons of fun!

 

Would it be okay to go with IROC springs on the car as opposed to Eibach's? The Eibach's seem pricey and when i called Strano they told me that it would be okay to use the IROC springs and that they were pretty stiff themselves.

I'll defintiely look into that stuff. How much will that run me?

What do you mean when you say High durometer?

I already got 3.42 gears in the rear, but I'm defintely looking to get an Limited slip unit like I mentioned.

What's the purpose for this?

I noticed this too. Would it be okay to go with Bilstein rear and KYB front, or should I stick with the same all around? Even though these are not adjustable, will they offer similiar performance?

Do you mean like competition auto-x tires? Slicks? I don't know if I'll be able to spring the money for those right away, but maybe later on. Right now I'm running Kumho 711's.

Last time I raced in ESP. This was after I told them aobut SFC's and the engien swap too.

 

your getting into a hobby that isn't cheap to begin with, yes you could run the iroc springs, the eibach pro-kit in particular would work better though as you lower the center of gravity without going too low for the street.



i personally like bilstein as koni is overpriced for what they are but everyone has their own opinions. usually with an adjustable strut you'll find one setting you like a leave it, with the bilsteins they are typically at that setting anyhow but that's just my experience. i've had koni orange and yellow and i loved my bilsteins. as far as mixing it's all preference and budget, i'm running 12 way qa1's on the front of my 91 with bilstein hd's in the rear.


the hobby is expensive in every way, if your budget oriented go with what you can afford that will make the most improvement for your needs. obviously tires are the most important and then your skill. doesn't matter what modifications you have if you can't drive the car.

good luck.

 

The steering box I refer to is also known as a "quick ratio" steering gear and it'll make the car feel much more lively when it comes to steering around the cones. Otherwise you'll be knees and elbows trying to roll your steering wheel around the autocross course.

As for tires, in ESP or prepared category, they are so, so, necessary for being competitive. You can race without them and maybe you should: The street tires will make you go slower and they will audibly warn you before letting go of the track: You'll feel the slide sooner. That will enable you to perfect your driving techniques such as mastering the art of picking your line, apexing and threshold braking.

High durometer rubber means stiffer rubber. You have three or four choices in LCAs: Stock unboxed, high durometer boxed, polyurethane boxed, polyurethane & rod end combo, and pure rod end. The high durometer boxed is a nice compromise in that there will be no creaking, squeaking poly mounts that need greasing. They will also flex properly when the body leans under hard cornering forces, unlike poly.

As for rod ends, unless you are willing to pay $200 for the four 3-piece aircraft quality teflon lined rod ends and another $150 for the two control arms, my direct experience is to not even bother. Anything less and the rod ends beat themselves to death in about 3 or 4 thousand miles. After that your car (like mine does now) will sound like a loose bucket of nuts and bolts.

 

First, the Pro-kits for the 3rd gen are the same rate as stock, but lower. Stick with stock IROC springs until you can afford to go to a Ground Control Weight jacker setup with appropriate rates. All you do with lowering springs is cost yourself effective travel with not increase in rate to help roll stiffness.

Secondly, for the 3rd gen Koni's are FAR from overpriced. As a matter of fact, in increasing order of price it goes Koni Special, Bilstein (HD or Sport), then Koni Sports. And if you mix and match Sport fronts with Special rears the price is about the same to Bilstein. I'm not necessarily recommending that, just saying that you can and that Koni's are as much as you'd think vs. Bilstein's. Also, you'd be crazy to give up adjustability for the cost difference. Bilstein's work well, and when they were hundreds less than Koni's it was good bang for the buck. That's no longer the case.

I might have a *little* insight on what it takes for good handling f-bodies (including winning one of my Championships in a 3rd gen).

I already corresponsed wtih '86 350 about this stuff, but it seems that he wants more input. I can only point to successes in both 3rd (more than one) gen's and 4th gens. I understand both cars, have autocrossed both quite successfully, and deal with the parts for them day in, day out. FWIW

 

Yes I do remember discussing a set-up like this with you before. Back then I wasn't doing suspension for a while. Now I'll be doing suspensin over the winter and that time is quickly approaching. I'm just making certain of what I want to do. It seems I'm getting conflicting opinions right now. I'm gonna let this subject sit and watch this thread for a while to get an idea of what I should go with.

I'm definitely gonna go with the aftermarket panhard rod, steering pieces, bushing kit, posi, and the sway bar set-up that WS6 mentioned, but it appears I'm still unclear on where to go with shocks. Like I said, this isn't a 100% auto-xer so I like the ability to adjust the shock, however I'm also keeping in mind that other people say the Bilsteins and maybe some KYB's up front already have a good, preffered combo. I'd like to go wtih the 2nd option do to $$$ saved, but I'm gonna wait for some more input.

As for springs, I'll most likely be going with some WS6 or IROC springs. The Eibach kit is a good chunk of $$$, and now that I found out the rate isn't even changed, I really have no desire to spring the extra cash for them.

Do you guys think that Koni Red combo all around would be a good set-up, or should I spring the extra $$$ for the yellows? Also, what level Koni's are the orange? Better than yellow or what?

Thanks, Brandon

 

he asked for opinions, if you look at the hard numbers you are almost right. reguardless, scca champion is nothing to laugh at so congrats on your newfound wisdom and the way you choose to project it..

 

all good points, if you search though you can find the eibachs for as low as $125 new and if you look for a good set used you can save money there as well. when it comes to strut/shocks you need to pair them up with the springs obviously, personally i'd track someone down with them if at all possible to compare what you want. if adjustment is key and your going to spend money why not really step up. qa1 12 ways.. only $750 a pair. bilstein 12 ways.. $1,100 a pair. when does it end?

 

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers there. The wisdom isn't newfound, and again the numbers aren't "almost" right, Bilstein's are not cheaper than all Koni's.

He did ask for opinions. You gave yours, as I did mine. Can we not disagree?

 

For what it's worth,

I bought my red Koni adjustable struts in August of 1990. I still have them on my car, and they have traveled 100,000 miles over the course of the last fifteen years. I can still crank them up to provide shock dampening that rattles your teeth and provides excellent handling ability on the autocross course. They dont leak and they are still tight. In addition, I still have my original receipt and if they ever go bad, the KONI warranty is that they'll rebuild or replace them for FREE.

So there you go. Would you call that kind of performance, warranty, and longetivity overpriced? I only recommended the Bilstein or KYB as lower priced alternatives. We once did a V6 camaro with KYBs and the grin factor on the autocross course was incredible. The car cornered like a cat on a rug. The most noise that car made was the sound of the driver shouting "wooo hoo hoo!!!" out the window.

 

First of all, Qa1's are completely out of the question. I simply don't have the $$$ for that set-up, although I'm sure it'd be sick.

ws6transam- Seems like an interesting combo. My car is a V8, however it has absolutely no emissions, no power options, no a/c, etc. I'd say it probably weighs no more than that V6. It's barebones option wise. With this KYB combo on the V6 you were talking about; was this KYB's all around? Or was it something else in the rear and KYB's in the front? Were they KYB AGX's or what?