sbca96

Total fail at the shop doing the pressing out and in of both front and rear bushings
and the ball joints. I could not get the arm into my press to do the front bushing
so I figured let the guys that know how do it. $50 dollars well spent I THOUGHT.

So they crushed one ball joint (AC Delco replacements special ordered) and one of
the rear bushings. They bought a Moog kit and replaced both, didn't charge me,
the problem is, the rotation of the rear bushing doesnt match a picture online nor
does it match my recall of how it was stock. I TOLD them prior to starting that it
was critical that the rear bushing depth be MEASURED before it was removed and
the rotation marked, the front bushing depth measured. I told them repeatedly it
needed to be matched or the control arm would hit the frame. They pressed both
of the bushings ALL the way in. They rotated the bushings 45 degrees from where
I remember them being, actually one is more like 25 degrees.

I found a blurb on another forum that a tech at Moog said the "voids" in the rubber
bushing needed to be installed inner and outer. Second hand info is only so good.
The GM Service Manual only calls out TOOLS required to install them, but not one
reference dimension to check.

I sent an email to Federal Mogal .. waiting for a reply.

I need something CONCRETE since I don't have a set of stock arms to show how
they screwed up. I know I can press out the rear bushing myself, but I notice it
has some sort of bonding agent on it now (no doubt they feared they damaged it
from all the pressing in and out). I have a feeling I will destroy the bushing if I do
it and they refuse to change it saying they made it "better". They rear bushings
took 7 reorders to get the correct ones because they are packaged wrong. That
was about a month of frustration leading up .. to this. The WHOLE point of this
effort was to replace worn out rear bushings!!!!!!!!!

So I have a car torn apart in my garage .. which happens to be the wifes!!

Anyone have install instructions from Moog, or some other that has a schematic
or dimensions or something that I can take with me?? A PDF, scan or ???

Tom

sbca96

I found this picture online, which shows the "voids" about 5-10 degrees off from
inner and outer. One of mine is now about 25 and the other is like 45.



Tom

sbca96

Here are the actual arms. See how they arent even angled the same?







Tom

Ultra_Z

that's the lower a arm.. lca's go from the car to the rear...

sbca96

I guess somehow that info was supposed to be helpful.

First off "A-arm" refers to the shape of the arm, not its location. One could
have "A-arms" in a rear suspension as well. GM calls the front lower control
arm a "Front Lower Control Arm" in document GMP/98-F-2F, 1998 Service
Manual (second edition) for Camaro and Firebird (Page 3-13)

The rear control arm you are referring to is called a "Rear Axle Lower Control
Arm" on page 3-44 in the Rear Suspension section. Sometimes this is also
called a "Trailing Arm".

So does anyone have any info to solve the PROBLEM I posted about?

Tom

Dtimekw

1-Start over and chalk it up to experience. Have a professional shop replace them and install them back in the vehicle. Usually comes with a warranty. We've all been there. It sucks but what else can you do?

2-Go with tubular control arms.

3-Buy a set of used ones from Ebay/Craigslist.

Hate to sound like an *** but what exactly are you looking for from the forum? If you know they are wrong, then you need to make them right or hold someone accountable. No one on this forum can wave a wand and fix it for you. Again, not meaning to sound like an *** just not sure what you are looking for.

Injuneer

He isn't looking for us to fix it. He is looking to us for documentation to support his contention that the shop installed the bushings incorrectly, in the hope that he can get them to reinstall them correctly.

And he is 100% referring to the part as the (front) lower control arm.

Wow..........

Dtimekw

How about taking them to a GM dealership and ask them? They may be able to provide a written estimate and possibly on the estimate make comments on what is wrong and what would be needed to correct the problem? I know some dealerships are a little weary of doing things like this but you never know.

sbca96

Autozone has a reproduction of the Service Manual, but it only tells you to
use the GM tools that self align the bushings.

| Repair Guides | Suspension | Front Suspension | AutoZone.com

To install:

1. Install the rear bushing to the lower control arm by performing the following procedure:
A. Thread the Lower Control Arm Bushing Screw Tool J-21474-3 through the small end of the LowerControl Arm Bushing Receiver Tool J-39931.

B. Install the Lower Control Arm Bushing Screw Tool J-21474-3 through the new rear bushing and theclosed end of the lower control arm.

C. Place the small end of the Control Arm Bushing Receiver Tool J-21474-5 onto the Lower Control Arm Bushing Screw Tool J-21474-3.

D. Place the thrust washer onto the Lower Control Arm Bushing Screw Tool J-21474-3 with the seamfacing the control arm.

E. Ensure that the tools align and the window on the Lower Control Arm Bushing Receiver Tool J-39931faces straight up and is visible.

F. Install the Lower Control Arm Bushing Nut Tool J-21474-4 onto the Lower Control Arm BushingScrew Tool J-21474-3; then, tighten the assembly until the rubber protrusion on the Lower Control ArmBushing Receiver Tool J-39931 side bottoms against Tool J-39931.

2. Install the lower control arm.



Tom

creyna3

hey wassup everybody, i been having knocking in my engine for some time now but just recently after i did an oil change the knocking became louder and smoke started to come out my exhaust pipe. i do not know much about mechanic work on vehicles, just a few here and there. i been told it might be my head gasket, it might be my cams, so on so on. if anybody can please help me out i will be very thankful.

Injuneer

Several problem here...

-we have no idea from the above info what engine you are asking about. You need to add that info.

-You posted this identical message more than a week ago on the "V6 Tech" forum. Can we assume you have a V6 engine? If so, which one?

-This is the "Suspension, Chassis and Brakes" forum, so a post regarding an engine knock doesn't belong here.

-This is someone else's thread, asking about his suspension problems. By tagging your post on the end of his, you are very unlikely to get a response, you will interfere with his ability to get his problem solved, and you are doing something called "hijacking" his thread, which is really not acceptable.

I would strongly recommend you add basic info about your car - year, model, engine, trans and any major mods - to your post, or as a "Signature". Then post in the correct ENGINE tech forum.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

sbca96

I dunno .. so far his was the most helpful response to my thread!

(obviously your PM was the most helpful period )

Tom

sbca96

This looks like what I will try tomorrow. If they have the tool, perhaps they
will let me look at it and figure out the correct position it would key it. If it
turns out they DONT have the tool, maybe they have a guide other than the
Service Manual? At any rate I will check and report back.

I screwed up on calling Moog, forgot that Central time is 2 hours, not one.

Tom

Dtimekw

Cool, hope it turns out. I've had some good experiences at the dealership. If nothing else, you might find a technician who can point you in the right direction. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!!

Ultra_Z

well you threw me off... helpful... If I was you I'd go to the junk yard or find some cheap lower a arms off ebay from a low mileage car. i wouldn't waste my time changing those bushings. most ppl set them on fire the burn the rubber bushing out and hammer out whats left... I on the other hand would just get a take off pair. PERIOD. That's the whole point of this site is learning how not to get burned by your typical repair shop in my opinoin. I went to tech school... but they don't teach you everything.. just basics in brakes, steering and suspension, engine performance (not high performance, just making it run right) and then electrical. Everything else I learned on my own, from shops/friends and on here.